I said it was a "wild idea", but hopefully you get the gist of the suggestion - that the total BMs are checked during the assault and if it tips either formation over the top, then the assault concludes at that point.

This is kind of heading in the direction that I feared. More and more proposals being put forward with precious little consensus, and little weight behind any of them in terms of play testing.

My suggestion, for what it's worth, is that if you've got what you think is a really good idea, go and play test it against a wide range of armies, and report back about its effectiveness .

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Just to chime in here, I'm taking all the input in. Frankly I'm still not sure what to do about the Banshees. MW-INF iis good as a goal, but wording it to fit the rules will be hard.

Assassin needs work, but is an option.

20cm move alone won't address the problems. 20cm and Infiltrate is more or less off the table, because allowing troops on foot to move faster than Falcons is just silly. Infiltrate alone is possible.

Lance suffers from the same problems straight MW does - it's too good against vehicles.

Ginger's latest idea makes fluff sense, but I don't feel like messing with the core game mechanics for one unit.

As I work up new versions in the next few days, I'll have a think, but unless I have some sort of epiphany, I'll be leaving the Banshees as-is, though with the best wording I can come up with for MW-INF added. I agree with Irisado that at this time what the Eldar need is playtests. We can work on solutions while testing goes on, but up to now I've seen lots of talk and little action on any of the changes. I want to get these lists into the 2013 compendium in at least a stable "Developmental" condition, preferably as "Approved". Without playtests from the community I can't guarantee either.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

It's worth noting that 2+ CC FS and exarch gaining first strike as per E-UK lists has seen quite a bit of playtesting.

Though only taken once in the 77x E-UK tournament lists available for viewing . . .

Dptdexys took them 3 times in Ulthwe I think?

And to other comments... Howling Banshee's, under review since 2006

I played a game against marines last night using 4x banshees, the rest dire avengers and fire dragons. Deployed via vampire. The game was very one sided, called midway through turn 2 after over half the marines had been taken out of action including the Reaver BTS.

I assaulted a formation of bikes with them on T1. Using 2+ FS with a FS exarch, they killed 3 or 4 bikes using the FS attacks (including the chaplain), the rest killed by the non-FS aspects for the loss of one banshee.

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Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

Ah yes, so that adds a further 27 Eldar lists making 4 Banshees in around 104 lists - hardly excessive

And I totally concur with the others over the duration and complexity of this debate. While I do think some boost is needed (INF-MW and Assassin are favourite IMO), I still suspect that the result will still be very 'niche', and consequently a sub-par choice when compared with the other Aspects.

The "Scary" suggestion might be more acceptable if sufficient other formations or circumstances warranted it, but I doubt that will be the case (though it could be an interesting house-rule for a game or two).

Lets not forget all the playtesting. Those stats just represent tournaments.

Remember though that the NetEA is an open development environmment - closed and undocumented playtesting doens't help much. That's not to say you didn't come to the right conclusion, just that the process isn't transparent enough to determine. For the purposes of NetEA, the body of evidence is the tournament records and any feedback left here.

Show us some batreps of EUK Eldar using Banshees so we can take them into account. My mind is still largely open on the matter, so you won't be flogging a dead horse or anything. I honestly don't know how to make them work myself.

At this point I've chosen a solution I like and am running with it until I can make a reasonable judgement of it's suitability or someone has a lightbulb moment that solves the prolem in an equitable and balanced manner. I don't have any expectation of the second happening aftrer all this time, but I can hope...

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Just to clarify, would this mean that games played at home, or at a store, which are not part of a tournament wouldn't count for the purposes of evidence, even if reports were submitted?

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Perhaps that was poorly worded. EUK's closed development process means that all the playtesting that goes on before list release is irrelevent to the NetEA process, as it isn't available for community discussion. Thus Tournament results and EUK games reported here (as a full BetRep or not - I'm not too picky about that) are the body of evidence for EUK lists.

Reporting on EUK or NetEA games not in a tournament environment here certainly is useful - the community has the ability to see what happened and deconstruct it in a meaningful manner. That can't happen for playtesting that occurs behind closed doors, as it were.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

A note: due to insufficient playtesting I have not included this rule in the documents sent out for the compendium. I still want to continue using it for any playtest games you may get in, but I do not feel it is ready for inclusion in a tournament environment as yet.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

That seems sensible to me. I think that one of the big issues with trying to make any changes, not just in the case of the Banshees, is that so few play testing results are available to determine whether they are balanced, and effective, alterations.

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I'm highly confident of the other changes, though the lack of playtesting (overall, not just for any list or faction) recently is disappointing. The Banshees are a stumper though.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.