Kyrt wrote:
I think the armour thing has gone on long enough, I'm sorry I brought it up! I only meant to say that I don't think a cursory "LV 4+ is worse than the Falcon" fully describes the complexity of situation, and that in practice I don't feel like LVs attract many additional hits.
The truth is, when Falcons get shot at they die, they need to not get shot at. As semajnollissor implies, giving the Hornet speed 40, no need to get closer than 45cm and the ability to enter via wraithgate makes it pretty survivable. In that environment, you're going to be lucky to get any hits on them at all, so they need to be made of paper if it's going to be their weakness. As far as I can see the only counter to Hornets is a scout screen on overwatch - often AP, it is true, but often range 30cm too.
Given not much else in the list will be able to target the enemy deployment zone on the first activation, the Hornet could well be a must-buy.
All good points Kyrt, though if we agree that Hornet should not be able to garrison (which IMO is a
must), at 35 or 40 cm they will only be able to hit the enemy deployment zone via a portal. On a double, they may well be unable to hide to avoid retaliatory fire. Falcons often achieve this by activating mid-turn, attempting to activate after the relevant enemy, or by doubling back to their deployment zone. But Hornets will tend to want to activate earlier, leaving themselves 'under the guns' of even short-ranged artillery if they shoot-up the enemy deployment zone, or competing for the same targets as the Falcons if they desire to end up in the Eldar deployment zone.
As I understand it, the current stats in the Compendium are :-
Hornettype: LV speed: 40cm Armour: 4+ CC: 6+ FF: 5+
Weapon: Twin Pulse Laser 2 x 45cm AT3+
Special rules: skimmer, scout
250pts for 6 in the Saim Hann list, and can be taken as 35pt/model add-ons for windriders troupes in the Yme-Loc list.
Working backwards, due to their size etc they are evidently light vehicles, so much more like jet Bikes and Vypers than Falcons, FireStorms etc. Consequently, I think that we should be aiming at 200 points for the formation, rather then 250 points.
So,
- They are definitely LV, as I think we all agree
- They should be a minimum of 5+ armour.
This reflects their mobility and size, but actually makes them weaker than either Vypers or Jet Bikes, so I would still respectfully suggest 4+ (see the above concerns)
- 35cm movement.
40cm is not really justified (we should only take 40K as a guide . . .), and yet another movement range is tedious to remember, while not really adding anything to the game or character of the unit.
- At 200 points, they should have no more than 5 units in the formation, making each unit 40 points.
This compensates for the 4+ save by adding formation fragility, while reflecting the increased shooting capability at the cost of armour and assault capabilities.
- Their shooting stats should fall between the Vyper and Falcon, or somewhere between 0.33 and 1.33 hits per unit firing. If we pick 0.66, that is a single 3+ shot or perhaps two 5+ shots. So categorically not 2x AT3+ shots.
At best this ought to be only a single AT3+ shot. However IMO it would be more characterfull to have two weapons at different ranges like the Falcon (possibly a 4+ and a 5+) though I agree that this will be much harder to define and test appropriately.
- They definitely must not have scout.
(see above) This must be added to the unit notes.
So, from the above, my suggestion for the stats are as follows
HornetType: LV, speed: 35cm, Armour: 4+ CC: 6+ FF: 5+
Weapon: Hornet Laser 45cm AT4+
. . . . . . . Scatter Laser 30cm AT5+ / AP5+
Special rules: skimmer, scout
Notes:- May not garrison.
200pts for 5 and possibly 40-50pt per model add-ons for Jet bikes / windriders troupes.
