Before I list anything here, I want to remind everyone these are proposed changes. Any and all are open for debate, so please speak your mind. Also if you have any concerns that are not addressed here, do speak up.

Now, here are the changes I propose to the 'Big Five" craftworlds. I'll list the change, what lists it effects (of the big five), and reasoning.

1) Scorpion Twin Pulsars from 2x 60cm MW2+ to 3x 60cm MW2+. Affects: All. Reason: Scorpions are subpar choices for SHGTs right now. This largely stems from the changes to Pulse, taking a weapon that often got three shots and downgrading it significantly to maxing at two. Correcting this has been discussed before and seems to be the right thing to do to make Scorpions viable.

2) Return Ignore Cover to Cobra D-Cannon. Affects: all. A simple fix, shouldn't have been removed in the first place, IMO. The Cobra may or may not require more tweaks to acheive approximate parity with the other Engines of Vaul.

3) Quantity discount for Engines of Vaul Troupe - new pricing is 250 for one and 0-2 more at +200. Affects: All. I'm a firm believer that activations themselves have a price, and that this is doubly true for WE. To compare, a set of three scorpions would cost the same as a Revenant pair, have significantly lower Engage and Defenses, but have 9x 60cm MW2+ instead of 8x 45cm MW3+ for primary weapons. Of course on the advance the Revenants make up 10cm of the range difference.

4) Hornet weapons changed to Twin Bright Lances, 30cm AT4+ Lance. Affects: Saim Hann. 2x 45cm AT3+ on a 40cm move Scout Skimmer is just too much. Twin Bright Lances allow the Hornet to differentiate itself from Vypers by taking on a dedicated AT role while not being excessive. Price (250 per 6) will stay the same, as the more specialized weapon, Scout, and extra 5cm move make it better than the Vyper despite the downgrade.

5) Spear of Khaine automatically taken for Ultwe Avatar. Cost: Free. Affects: Ulthwe. I'm not sure this justifies the cost - does anyone pay for it? It's very slightly better than the Biel Tan Court of the Young King, but not so much so I can't see it remaining free.

6) Titan Power Fist - The one that's sure to generate discussion. I propose to remove (Small Arms) EA+3 from the Power Fist and add it to the Titan Chassis (both Warlock and Phantom). Affects: All except Saim Hann. This makes up for the lower DC of Eldar Titans, and levels the playing field between Titan Weapons somewhat. Most currently fielded Titans (read: those with a Power Fist) will see no change. Those that choose Twin Pulsars or Lance/Pulsar combo will see a boost in utility. SInce they are not favored at this point due to a perception of lesser value than TPF titans, this should work well.

Please discuss, and add any other concerns you may have.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

If you move the extra attacks, wouldn't that give it both the CC extra attacks AND the FF extra attacks at the same time? War Engines can use FF even if they're in base contact, so long as there are units not in BtB too.

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And this is why they're proposed. I knew there was a problem with that solution and couldn't remember what it was. Any suggestions on the issue, Kyrt?

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

So throw something out there, Rug. Would increasing the number of Pulsar shots be more to your liking?

Also, do mention the areas that need 'tweaking and testing'. Now's the time to speak up - I want ideal lists and if you see anything you want to change I want to hear about it.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

What about a point reduction, and having the other three be upgrades for additional points? The Pulsar on the Scorpion is supposed to be the same one on the Phantom (and the Revenant too, but I'm not arguing that their Pulsars be upped to 60cm ) so it seems weird that the Scorpion would be getting some extra shots out of it.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

And yet Titans get TK and 15cm more range. Not saying you're wrong, just pointing it out. However, if the Titan Pulsars get improved in the way Rug seems to be advocating, they'd get the same shots again. We could try to fix the problem with points alone, but a) I've always admired the elegance of keeping the pricing the same, and b) sometimes pricing is not the best solution, only the easiest. Take Warhounds - all the pricing tweaks in the world won't solve the fundamental problen that they add things that are unique to the lists they are common in. We can make Scorpions cheap, but I think making them attractive is better.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Ah, didn't realize the range and TK difference. I looked at the Rev Pulsars and assumed they were the same as well. Then give the Scoprions 75cm 2xMW2+, TK. That'll make them attractive.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

It would. What if Titan Pulsars were increased to 3x? Would you feel the Scorpion could follow suit and not be overpowered?

(Technically Revenants have Pulse Lasers, not Pulsars - at least they had them when Swordwind was released)

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I'm not following you. Do the Titans' Pulsars need work too? I thought this was purely about the effectiveness of the Scorpion. Given that, I'd leave the Titan weapons alone and bring the Scorpion inline with them if it isn't worth 250 points.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

The Pulse changes (going to 2 attacks instead of 1-3) nerfed the Scorpion. I ran some numbers in the Scorpion thread, and 3x3+ is the closest you can get to the old Scorpion, so that gets my vote.

If there's interest I can punch in some numbers for the Titan Pulsar as well later today. Was the Phantom Pulsar considered OK before the Pulse change?

edit: Damn, there's a lot of Blue posts here!

I don't totally agree with the Cobra. It may need a buff, but going back to the old Ignore Cover improves it vs inf and AV, and not against its rightful prey, war engines.

How about the suggestion for ignoring void shields/power fields? (I'd be inclined to expand that to ignoring other shields such as Tau Deflector Fields as well, but YMMW.)

Other than that I'm heavily in favor of 3), got no opinion on 4) and I decline to have an opinion on 5) as I play Ulthwé

1- Agreed
2 - Agreed
3 - Partially agreed (I'd go for +200 for 2nd and +150 for 3rd)
4 - disagreed. You're inventing a weapons layout that doesn't exist. I ran the to hit numbers and it shoots pretty much the same as a falcon, but with no AP and crap FF. also affects craftworld Mymeara, a list that has active playtesters. Problem with Saim-Hann list is daft cheap pricing not stats.
5 - No opinion
6 - disagreed. Upgrade Pulsar instead either with an extra shot or TK D3. Currently a twin Pulsar Phantom statistically kills less than a (cheaper) pair of Revenants.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

That's what EUK did. It did not make them attractive IMO as terrain generally makes the extra range less of a boost than it at first might appear. Have played against those stats a whole bunch.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter