I have my doubts, but basically it depends on the number of extra attacks we are debating. Not knowing your suggestion, I think a direct translation (+D3) would make the CC version redundant. A 4+RA formation with an average of 12 x 5+ FF and a threat range of 40cm looks better than 12 CC 3+ with a threat range of 25cm. Maybe EA +1 would be a fair trade. I also think we are dodging the real issue, CC assault engines.

By the way, in the Tournament pack, the +D3 Attacks are missing from Daemonic Assault Engines.

/Fredmans

I'm not looking at increasing the number of units in the LatD list as we have enough to keep balanced anyway. I note that Frogbear has split the engines more in the World Eaters list and I'd be interested to hear how that is going, but not with a view to change what we have here.

I'm more inclinded to look at removing the random element on the extra attacks, as we did with Eldar Pulsar.

Well the defilers in the World Eater list are a distraction to the assault engines - in that Defilers win due to the support they provide.

As worrying as it may be the only reason i can see it being taken while promoting the foot-slogging force is to put them at 225 points or drop the defilers altogether (last option however does not really promote taking them over the drop force)

The daemon support options are a boon to the list and there has been recent talks to reduce thier effectiveness to help drop thier points.

Overall my vision is a World Eater list with troops supported by the characteristic Khorne support options. I would love those options to be more of the iconic vehicles that khorne is known for rather than what general chaos lists use.

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@ frogbear: Why are Khorne Daemon Engines in LatD be generic in your opinion?

"noob mode on": What are Khorne Daemon engines known for?

@Tiny-tim: Would you agree that removing their Invulnerable save and dropping their points would be a good development?

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Why can't we just play test increasing the FF to 4+? It's a simple change, and if it's found to be too effective, then we could discuss some of the more complicated proposals in further detail.

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Please feel free to do so and give us some feed back.

I think the above is a good solution. I think infiltrate well represents khorne deamon engines. Sort of like, they get supernatural speed/strength when they get close and the beast trapped within senses the enemies and wants to get close.

cheers

I'd love to, but final year PhD student, and play testing Epic rules changes do not mix. Also, there are far better qualified Chaos players than me participating in this discussion, so their results would be more valid I suspect, and this is why I'd like others to play test this suggestion.

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Right I've got some testing in and played around with things, sorry there is a lack of testing results up here, but I haven't been making notes in these quickfire games. From the initial list of units that were raised with a concern these are my thoughts.

Firelord (2 for 250pts) +1 for extra 100pts
Revised Stats

Aircraft, Bomber, 4+, n/a, n/a
Incendiary Bombs, 15cm, 2BP, Ignore Cover, Fixed Forward Arc
Flame Cannon, 15 cm, 2x AP4+/AT5+/AA5+, Ignore Cover, Fixed Forward Arc
Twin Lascannon, 45cm, AT4+, Fixed Forward Arc
Invulnerable Save

Doomwings (3 for 150pts)
Revised Stats

Aircraft, Fighter, 6+, n/a, n/a
Flame Cannon, 15 cm, 2x AP4+/AT5+/AA5+, Ignore Cover, Fixed Forward Arc
Invulnerable Save

Daemonic Assault Engines – Remain the same, I’m going to look at increasing the cost of the Defiler to 275pts and use the BL stats for them

Contagion Towers – Remain the same. They can garrison and have better save (+inv) over Basilicks

Altars – I just don’t have any luck with these so don’t propose any stat changes just a cost reduction to +100pts and we’ll see where that takes us.

Covens – I can understand the desire to have the formation better costed for what they do. However I feel that they are about correct and don’t want to see a cheaper starting formation which opens up the support options.

At this time I don't see the Approved list being changed this year as there are still list issues that I want to get sorted out, but with the completion of the BL review we can fully get into this.

Very interesting changes. Just to make sure:

Doomwings are now Bombers.

On Defilers, the NetEA Tournament pack already has the same stats for BL and LatD. Otherwise, I agree with you, maybe Defilers should go up in points instead of Assault Engines down.

/Fredmans

D'oh no Doomwings are to stay as Fighters.

worth renaming to helldrakes?

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Helldrakes aren't bombers. They are nimble enough to "ram" other aircrafts and rip them apart with their claws.

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I would prefer "counts as", since Doomwings exist as a model. Keep the new units for a new list.

No, for the two are not the same.

I'm disappointed that the Daemonic Assault Engines aren't going to be changed in some way, but since I've no recent play testing to counter yours, I won't argue the point.

Everything else looks okay to me. Thanks for keeping us updated.

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