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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Since they are in convoy by implication you can only go as fast as your slowest member. I'd say their movement is halved. The price you pay for trail blazing


Probably not but for simplicity I'd say that we'd "smooth it out" at the dozer DTT representing the entire thing. Not the greatest abstraction but let's not get too caught up with dice rolling. OTOH we could "temporarily" grant walker to the following units and make them take their own rolls.


I'd say yes. treat them as a broken formation until rescued



Not if dozers are not free or are limited by scenario for flavor. Like you say though, if it is free to take them then everything will and that's fine for tourny play. I feel the precedent is rather like granting a modifier for INF shadowing an AV.

Regardless, I'm going to go duck back into my hole for now and let you big wigs hash it out

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i ran a reasonably forrested table at cancon back in january which had destructable terrain. things like flame throwers and defoliant (anything with IC) could be used particularly effectively to clear firelanes and whatnot. likewise, anything using blast templates would be able to clear terrain. allows for artillery positions to clear spaces on the table.
you may also want to read my Tanith list for the rules i used for their camo heavy list, which i based reasonably heavily on the VC style of fighting

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Whacked together a PDF for convenience. Not totally happy with the layout and I need a graphic for the Scenario, but it's a good working document. It's also in the OP for ease of reference.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

We've done it again, and I have not read that doc
So these thoughts relate to the earlier posts


Hills

OK, if you want hills to be wooded, then perhaps the wording ought to be:-

"Dense Terrain
Hills and all the table that is not covered in other terrain count as woods, while 'Woods' count as 'Jungle' (see below). All built up areas or 'Clearings' need to be mounted on bases to distinguish them from the surrounding woods."

Clearings

These are obviously needed, but
• Mirali opponents will probably need their deployment zone clear as well.
  
• The 30cm minimum distance between clearings is likely to cause problems, especially if the maximum size clearings are used (eg I place my second 30cm clearing in your table half, 45cm from your clearings . . .)
• I also think you may need to specify that Clearings may not be placed in any "Jungle" area.
This whole definition will need thought and some testing, but perhaps the clearings should be specified as 15cm-20cm in diameter and a minimum of 20cm apart?

Also, perhaps Mirali 'garrisons' ought to be given the option / ability to define their set up areas as 'clearing' (think Vietnam style firebases). Here you would need a small area of (purchased) fortifications that potentially could be set up within a jungle terrain piece, making it hard for the attackers to slog through.

Dozer blades

I like the notion of allowing 'Dozer equipped vehicles to go at 1/2 speed, conferring 'Walker' on any vehicles that follow nose-to-tail. That is 'fluffy' and also simple. (note the 'dozer vehicle will take a DTT if it goes at full speed).

For simplicity, I would modify Jimmy's suggestion; take a single test for all the vehicles in the "tail" that move at 'dozer speed or less. Failing the DTT in these circumstances causes all the vehicles to count as broken and immobile until they rally. (Note, this would allow Leman Russ upgraded with a 'dozer Hydra to move at 15cm . . . )

WE and Titans should definitely not have them, and perhaps they should also be banned to vehicles defined as 'Walker'?
Otherwise I would suggest that they could be free to any non-WE transport, and 5 points to fit to any vehicle (AV or LV).

One potential FAQ - "would you need to mark such tracks on the table once the 'dozer equipped vehicle has passed through?"
I am tempted to say 'no' for simplicity, but this needs to be spelled out for the naive etc. So for example, a second formation that ends up touching the tail of a 'dozer equippped formation does not gain 'walker'.

Equally, we should deem all marked roads/tracks as 'passable' even though in reality they were often difficult going at best, especially on hills.

LVs won't fare much better that any vehicles in the Jungle. Dozers or any other type of clearing device will have to move at a much slower speed, not like we saw in Indy Jones/Crystal Skull. Terrain cleared would still probably considered rough for vehicles. Clearing the jungle by artillery would leave rough terrain also. In the RVN/SEA the US employed big 1500lbs (IIRC ?) bombs called "Daisy Cutters" dropped by cargo aircarft, like C-130s to clear jungle LZs/DZs. But the terrain would still be considered rough terrain. Flame thowers were never considered good for clearing anything but thick brush. And fire is generally uncontrollable. It goes where is wants ... Of course you could have random fire direction rules. Understand, Mechanized/Armored formations tend to be road/trial bound, so the war of maneuver is the speed Grunts can walk ... Of course there are clearings, open terrain, like paddies, farming areas, etc. ... but those are generally not that numerous ... I've commanded both Light and Mech units while on active duty. So I have some RW experiences in all types of terrain. For gaming purposes (and generally in the RW) , I'd avoid, dense terrain. Slows manuever, unless the board is nothing but dense terrain. Then the game will come down who can clear a path to the Objective and/or to the enemy positions ... Just my 2 Cents.

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Yeah, at this point Ginger I've not looked at how a table setup would go so I'm throwing out reasonable guesses. You may well be right that smaller clearings and distances will be needed. Opening up the Deployment zones might also be neccessary, though in theory there should be enough room to deploy several forces in clearings and have them travel along roads. I've changed the wording to explicitly include hills as wooded. I do need to better define clearings and for that matter roads.

Dozers: I wouldn't allow dozers at full speed. They'd be half speed like everybody else and take DTTs - there are any number of ways a dozer could bog down, from bellying up on a stump to simply getting to a point that is truly impassible for vehicles. Also 'training' after the dozer makes the value of the dozer difficult to determine; is it worth the same on a hydra battery, a tank company, and a mech inf company? This is one of the reasons I like simply individually upgrading vehicles as a solution. It also avoids the problem of how to treat the 'cleared' paths - since they treat the terrain normally for Walkers.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Updated, mostly clarifications, but added a map to the scenario.


Hopefully I don't crosspost with Ginger again.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Don't forget to cue CCR's "Run Thru The Jungle !"

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

I haven't had much time to digest this information, but I really like the general concepts. Not sure if I would want to see a whole game of this, but certainly in combination with a larger scenario it would be fantastic. A jungle force working in coordination with a larger conventional force to do something the others can't do.

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