So, taking the above as the TRUTH, or at least the DA truth:

- Generic stats for the Ravenwing Attack Bike: Multi-Melta instead of Heavy Bolter.
- Generic Stats for the Ravenwing Land Speeder: Multi Melta

- Ravenwing attack detachment: 4 Bikes stands, 2 Attack Bikes, 2 Land Speeder Tornado

- Ravenwing Support Squadron: 5 Land Speeders, 1 upgrade to a Tornado and 1 upgrade to a Typhoon available.

Epic conversion proposition: same as above except do not limit the number of Typhoons or Tornadoes in the Formation.

All prices remain the same as the current list design, except for the prices of the LS upgrades which a copied from CA marines.

Thoughts?

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Welcome back!

Any chance we would get your intentions on RW Land Speeders?

And on Plasma Tacticals?

What to buy and paint is at issue here...

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So no MM LS Support formations?

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If I may insist on the LS options...

I understand that you wish this to be a good transcription of a Fallen Ops operation. However in game terms, ruling out allies completely is a big drawback, that would allow for more flexibility in the list.

In many aspects, the design intent is fulfilled: flexible hunter, flexible devastators, flexible armoured support, nice character options with Fearless.

All except for one of the two iconic DA companies, for which there is much less flexibility than in normal lists. Now the attack detachment is a nice fluffy tweak, but why renounce completely the flexibility on the support LS detachment? Sure Tornadoes are iconic, and thats why they are represented in the Assault det. But why limit the support detachment that way. Sorry if I sound insisting, but I cannot see the balance reasoning behind it, and fluff really does not support this inflexibility, even in the Special Fallen hunting.

Independently of these considerations, 2 more things:

- Your list at the beginning of the thread lists the Chaplain wihtout invuln save, while the Compendium gives him invuln. save. At first I thought that the chaplain kept it because of the rosarius, but then I thought it might be a typo. Which are the correct stats?

- What is missing for the list to apply for approved status? While not setting it in stone, it would insure some stability to the list, which would really help painting projects.

If its playtesting you are missing, please say so, and mention what exactly you are unsure about list balance-wise. Thanks!

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Ask GW why they limited the Ravenwing Support Squadron in this way.

All DA Characters exchange their Invulnerable Save for Fearless.
Concerning stability. Well the new Codex is rumoured to introduce the Land Speeder Tempest (or something very similar) as well as a Predator with a multiple-shot Plasma Cannon in the turret.

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But they didn't, as your post above just mentions. It's actually the opposite, the LS support squadron cannot take 5 Tornadoes...

Thank you for the other answers

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Ah this you meant. I was thinking about the LS Typhoon.
Well the traditional layout for the Ravenwing LS Tornado is Heavy Bolter and Assault Cannon.
I did mention the restiction: Both in Wh40k ( thus and in Epic) the RW Support Squadron can only take ONE Tornado.

Fully upgraded you can have 3 Land Speeders (with Heavy bolter or Multi-melta), 1 LS Typhoon (with Typhoon Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter or Multi-melta) and 1 LS Tornado (with Heavy Bolter or Multi-melta and an underslung Assault Cannon or Heavy Flamer).

Edit: New rumours for the Dark Angels: Mole Mortars instead of Thunderfire Cannon.

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It will be interesting how all this talk will change once the new codex comes out sans RAS and when Gav's RW novel comes out.

One can be sure there will be some rectonning of fluff and re-explaining, like always, then we'll see people backpedaling (skyclaws and stormravens anyone).

I don't understand the loss of Invul save when quite clearly the DA still have access to Iron halos and Rosarius in 40k. If fearless is to be added as well just increase cost to cover the advantage gained.

Looking fwd to the new codex, hopefully it clears up some of the Ravenwing issues and the predator with executioner is bound to be a nice addition to the list. 60cm MW5+ IIRC?

I've also heard rumours of some new troops choices so perhaps you could look at these power armoured vets as a upgrade for the normal tac detachment?

cheers.

Space Marines Characters are already expensive enough. Giving the Characters an Invulnerable Save AND Fearless would make them to expensive.

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Playtesting is one of the main criteria. As there have been almost no batreps or even reports of games using the DA list, the list will not move forward in any great leaps.

Unfortunately, arguing for changes when no tests have been documented won't push the list forward.

Things like 2 Hunters in a formation, Plasma Infantry, the RW formation itself, Teleport Homers, Assault Terminators and larger Terminator formations and how everything interacts are things I'd like to see reports on.

At the end of the day, regardless of how you feel about the MM LS not being in the list it's just how the list is designed right now. We'll never know the exact deficiencies in a list if it's never played as a sum total of its parts as it stands right now.


Game balance?

I think the Predator Executioner could be a handy addition given no allies.

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