available to infantry formations?

Cheers!

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

They didn't need the boost

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Thank you very much for the answer!

In other words, EUK felt that Guardians and/or Aspects with Leader would be too powerful, even at +25 point cost?

I know there is no place for debate on EUK rules, and I am really thankful for the dynamic effect of having two parrallel and similar in content list developments, however a good case could probably be made that upgraded (ie expensive) formations could really use the boost, considering how difficult 3+ initative can be once the game is going, and that its a big disincentive to buy Wraithguard/Lord guardians.

Fair enough however.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

I think it's more that EUK felt that guardians and aspect warriors didn't need spirit stones, they play perfectly fine without them, the 3+ initiative tests (or 2+ for aspects) is characterful, represents the 'all or nothing' philiosophy of an eldar assault, and ensures they aren't effective in a war of attrition

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Im not sure why the 3+ is characterful on Guardians...

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

Because they're effectively civilians with guns, not war-obsessed aspect warriors.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Allow me to rephrase:

They have a bad initiative, thats because they are bunny rabbits with guns.

But they are led by prophets/archons: why can't they handle BM's?

I don't think the fluff argument holds in this case. And the balance argument would be debatable.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

because it works, if your huge triple retain assault doesn't come off due to poor planning or abysmal luck, you are going to suffer as your formations will be stranded, it also helps keep things in check, the eldar can quite easily wipe out a flank, if they could shed blast markers quicker it would make them extremely potent and in a great position to assault again immediately next turn, as it is, you have to spend a turn consolidating, or going after weaker and well-prepped formations

both EUK and NetEA (according to armyforge) feel spirit stones are an unneccessary upgrade for infantry formations, and plenty of solid tournament results with multiple eldar builds have confirmed this. Every army has its strengths and weaknesses, it's perfectly fine for eldar to have some too!

if you really think they should be an option, playtest it, compare the results of several games both with and without spirit stones on aspects/guardians and see what difference it makes

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I think sometimes people get too wrapped up in the fluff and background and forget about the balance of the game, sure it's nice to have very accurate representations of "real world" (and I use the term very loosely) but sometimes game balance must be preserved at the expense of the background.... in a game with such strong abstraction it should be easier to rationalise this and I'm surprised at the number of people who struggle to do so.....

citizen soldiers (guardians) shouldn't have the same FF value as genetically engineered, super soldiers (tactical marines) but they do, surely it's not hard to assume the presence of seers/archons is factored in their artificially inflated FF value, rather than the leader ability?

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Either way it's not a big deal. I don't think I would often take a spirirt stone upgrade on guardians even if it was available.

Perhaps on the 475 point Wraithguard/Lord gating assault group, but definitely not on 150 pop corn formation. I was just wonderong what the rationale was.

I still think the option to have Spirit stones at a cost is a better choice than not having the option. If the player wants to commit so many points and activations to succeeding his rolling assault on one flank, and doenst get stopped by the typical barrages/air assault/orbital bombardment/Ground attacks/indirect fire that completely cripple eldars when successfully delivered, then I think he should get a good chance of success, which 3+ often makes impossible.

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"War is not about who is right, but about who is left". - B. Russell

To be more specific they are ex-Aspect Warriors. To be a Guardian you have to be walking the Path of the Warrior before.

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I completely agree. Guardians should never be as good as elite troops like Space Marines. They are civilians, so the fact that they are as good as they are speaks volumes for the skills of Eldar civilians compared to fully trained soldiers, such as Imperial Guard.

Black Legion: That's not the case. You can be a Guardian without having been an Aspect Warrior.

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As kyussinchains says lists need to be as much about what they don't do well as they are what they do do well.

If you have all the options covered you never need to make a hard decision in a game.

@Irisado: That contradicts current fluff. An Eldar must be able to don the War Mask to protect his psyche against the brutality of combat. He only learns how to do this if the walks the Pathof the Warrior = he becomes an Aspect Warrior.
If he swtiches his Path (eg to become an artisan or so)he can be called to be a Guardian if nee demands it as he already has experience in the Path of the Warrior.

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