I have a couple of suggestions for the AM lists, where I feel all the proposed lists lack in, so I’m sticking up separate threads to discuss them. I believe they apply equally to all the proposed lists, so could be discussed independently regardless of who manages the list from here.

The Adeptus Mechanicus should feel and play more than just red painted IG, having flavor and character of their own. IMO the approach would be better not to over-zealously cut out all IG tanks from the list, but to better and more differently represent the Skitiarii and the all important Tech Priests. The IG have a special rule that helps just a single unit – the Commissar – and it is an important part of how the list plays and I think the same should be true of the AM. The core role of the AM is to build, repair and maintain the technology of the age. In 40k both the (AM taught) SM Tech-Marines and the AM Tech-Priest Enginseers have a special rules called Blessing of the Omnissiah which allows them once a turn to repair and fix a vehicle that has been damaged. I propose a similar rule for the epic list would be very appropriate and characterfull:

Blessing of the Omnissiah – it is the sacred duty of Tech Priests on the battlefield to repair damaged vehicles and restore them to fighting condition. The first Armoured Vehicle or Light Vehicle unit in the same formation with a Tech-Priest that dies each turn is instead saved from destruction from that particular hit. When hits are applied to vehicles from the front to back, the blessing applies to the first vehicle from the front to the back that fails its save. If that first vehicle dies twice or more from failed saves from one batch of incoming fire/attacks then the blessing is still used up but the vehicle dies anyway.

That could probably be re-written better, but you get the idea. The extra boost may or may not possibly call for a small boost in the cost of the Skitiarii, but if so and they become better / more elite / more different from IG then this doesn’t seem like a bad thing to me.

The list has two special rules (one negative) so a third wouldn’t be unreasonable considering Eldar have 5. I’d regard this as far more important than the new automation rule anyway. To make these repairs justified of appearing in epic (while a SM Tech Marine or IG Enginseer doesn’t) I suggest it should come from the combined effect of a stand of 5 Tech Priests, not 1 Tech Priest and bodyguard. Similar to Eldar and Ork command 1 in 10 in a Skitiarii formation being a Tech Priest seems a far more appropriate ratio than 1 in 50 considering their importance and the amount of vehicles to create and repair. Following on from this, if some kind of tank variant of the Ad-Mech list were made that perhaps had a single Tech Priest or Lord character added in a vehicle, then they shouldn’t get this rule, which could be a downside and differentiator for the vehicle list compared to the normal. Some have suggested re-naming the Tech-Priest as a purely military Skitiarii officer instead, but this poor idea lacks characters and de-emphasises the Ad-Mech seniority being based on knowledge.

Really interesting idea, Glyn. How would blast markers on the 'blessed' vehicle be handled? I could see it disappearing if the vehicle is saved, but also see a justification for it staying on the FM (conducting repairs distracts the FM from its mission, or some such).

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

It could be done either way but I'd say it makes most sense that the formation shouldn't get a blast marker for the vehicle that has been repaired, since it hasn't been destroyed.

Good point though, that should be mentioned in the wording of the rule to make it clear.

I disagree with your thoughts here. I really don't see this as a useful direction for the skitarii or adding anything to them that make it "feel" more Ad Mech. It's basically reducing the number of unsaved AT hits by one but only applies to demi-centuries with transport. You have to purchase a 525 point formation for it to even come into effect which seems rather unhelpful for us to create an entire SR for. The IG commisar provides a very useful and continuing function that is very fluffy across multiple units in the force. This does not.

If a special rule is warranted for something like this, I'd rather see a BFG style gifts of the omnissiah that modify the entire formation. Perhaps granting them a 6+ invulnerable save, always counting as in cover, +5cm speed, or other options to a random number of formations. Even that is a bit too complex for my liking.

Just a note, the tanks got cut to make way for a specific Cataphtact list to go with Ben's supplement. With all the shenanigans happening though, it got lost in the shuffle and stalled. Hopefully once all this ends we can finish out a few things and get back on track with it.

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-Vaaish

Hmm, ok. Perhaps an alternate mechanic could be something like: any Armoured Vehicles, Light Vehicles or War Engines that are part of the same formation as the Tech-Priest count as having an invulnerable save. This does not apply against TK attacks, as they are too powerful and damaging to repair.

That would then allow them to repair Minoris which were part of their formation too. Blessing of the Omnissiah wouldn’t be as widely applicable across the army as Commissars say, but it would still be an important boost and get across the character of the AM. Keeping it the same sort of thing as in 40k is important though i.e. repairing damage to vehicles. Helping infantry or boosting speed wouldn’t be appropriate.

Odd thought: perhaps a single Tech-Priest stand could be added as an optional upgrade elsewhere in the list e.g. for a Minoris or Majoris formation. They are slow enough to keep up and the Tech Priests could hide behind their constructs and repair them.

I checked and saw Chimedons have only 1 transport capacity, I hadn’t clocked it was so low. No wonder a mech AM formation in this list is so expensive. Fair enough. I’m not sure what the transports are to be in the proposed armoured AM list (couldn’t find the list when I looked the other day) but if they can have either Crassus Armoured Assault Transports or Storm Lord superheavy transports (IMO either is a more appropriate fit than the siege-specific and vulnerably open topped Gorgon) then it could come into play there more. Ditto in the Ordo Reductor variant and perhaps others.

The issue still remains that you are wanting to create a special rule that affects only a single formation in the list and only affects that formation if they take a 175-250 point upgrade. Special rules shouldn't be created for such extremely specific circumstances. If the list needs a SR, it needs to be one that affects it in a mre widespread way or you aren't actually creating any "flavor" in the list under game circumstances.

I really don't think this needs to follow the 40k pattern. if anything it needs to be along the lines of accenting the mechanicus' advanced or experimental technology usage across the board rather than the limited example of "look, we fixed the tank"

There really hasn't been much done with the cataphract list. Ben posted his early draft a while ago and I believe it had the Crassus and Gorgons as transport but it's been awhile.

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-Vaaish