It seems like the hornet should be added. But out of interest, what units have been traded out of the Yme-Loc list in exchange? Just looks a bit like list creep.

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I don't see a problem giving yme-loc the void spinner.

The background says a few other craftworlds use it.

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Fair enough if Yme-Loc was a craftworld with a militiaristic aggressive ethos (like Biel tan) but it isn't, its a craftworld without low population that uses more vehicles as a result. The decision to use Void Spinners would surely still be wrong to them as they aren't militant just adapting to their situation and the use of Vpinners is a philosophical choice.

For me they would be best represented by moving Falcons to core and discounting mechanised guardians (WS+falcon)

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The tidbit about a low population is as far as I can tell just fan speculation.

The sum total knowledge that we have about Yme-Loc is that they are known for their "artisans" (bone singers?) and that they have an emphasis on tanks and titans. They're probably near the eye of terror.

We have no idea what their overall philosophical ethos is.

They could be "warrior sculptors" in the same way that we have "warrior poets" on earth.

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Ok then falcons to core, larger tank formations.

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Indeed they could be, my only point is that if it's important that Void Spinners are included then you need to actually make Yme-Loc a "warrior supremacy" craftworld (with all that entails) in order for it to make sense.

On an entirely separate note, I'm not sure it is necessary - far more can be done to give a list a great unique play style using the list construction mechanics (i.e. which formations are core, formation size and composition), than whether a unit is included or not just because it happens to be a tank. Look at Iyanden.

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My present view of the Yme-Loc list is that it is full of Vypers and (albeit mechanized) Guardians.

Perhaps replacing the Vyper upgrades with Firestorms and/or Hornets and adding the limitation that infantry units be mechanized could give it more flavor?

Getting in to splitting background hairs, and taking a bit from E&C's "artisans== Bonesingers" remark (which seems true, based on the accounts of artisan activities in the novels, e.g. a Bonesinger crafting a starship in Path of the Seer).

As to the anethmic nature of the weapon used by the Void Spinner, it is likewise described as being the technique used to terraform Maiden Worlds. I would think this is likely to be the province of artisans as well, but might concede that, indeed, we have nothing about Yme-Loc to site, spare that they are particularly inclined to using armor and titans to fight their battles.

All Craftworlds have the technology to build Void Spinners, and use it for terraforming - they just consider using them in war to be repulsive.

What if we created a new but nearly identical superheavy spinner tank (and us cheapskates would just use the same model):

Doom Spinner
type: WE
speed: 25 cm
Armour: 5+ RA
CC: 6+
FF: 5+
DC3, skimmer, RA, EoV crit hit effect

Weapon:
Doom Spinner Array
45cm 4BP disrupt, indirect fire

Hi

To check that we dont have list creep, has anyone totted up all the various additions to Biel-Tan list and also the number of deductions/restrictions?

Cheers

James

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On this list, the new units are:

Engine of Vaul Warhost
Swords of Vaul Warhost (Falcon host)
Gate of Vaul

The deletions are:

Aspect Warrior Warhost
Guardian Warhost
Swords of Vaul Troupe

The modifications to unit selection choices are:

Hornet upgrade added to Windriders (jetbike Troupe unit, seemingly based on the unit from the Saim-Hann list)
Void Spinner option removed from all Engines of Vaul choices (Warhost and Troupe)

Windrider troupe is the one in the Biel-Tan list with the Hornet option added - Saim-Hann version has variable numbers and some other funky stuff.

If we're talking units, Yme-Loc gets Hornets and Gates of Vaul, but loses Void Spinners.

Formation-wise, the list as I see it looks like this:

Pros:
Better Webway options (Gate of Vaul).
Armor (Falcons, EoVs) in core.
Farseers in Armor formations, allowing greater inherent flexibility for Avatar deployment.
Chains of Vaul Troupe is a significant improvement over the Nightspinner Troupe.
Windriders have Hornet option.

Cons:
Cheapest core formation 350pt. this places Yme-Loc on a level with Iyanden for cost and activation count - low activation counts are potentially hamstringing for Eldar.
Farseers in armor formations, which do not synergise with the rest of the formation. Partly offset by Farseer abilties, especially if no Guardian Troupes with Farseers are taken.
Smaller Aspect Troupe, with attendant increase in vulnerability for SC.
Guardians cost +25pt with Farseer, which is not included in basic formation.

Edit - There is also the fact that the list has more AT firepower than it will need 90% of the time, but low AP firepower. This is in common with the main list, but exacerbated by the Armor focus. The list also has a slightly decreased ability to Engage compared to other Eldar lists, by virtue of the lower activation count, decreased access to Aspects, and slightly higher average cost per unit.

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I'd also like the option of a heavy artillery style EoV in the Yme-Loc list. It seems a little restrictive not getting something like the Void Spinner here, however in light of the fluff I can't see it actually being a Void Spinner.

So I propose, with the agreement of the local boys when I next get back across the table, to try out a more "culturally acceptable" version of the Void Spinner. Basically the same machine that uses the EoV power to deliver rounds on target out to 60 cm (120 cm on sustain) but does not inject the terraforming bacteria and wraithbone parasites into the monofilament stream. So this would be BP2.

Now in the Yme-Loc list we have EoV Warhosts with 2 for 450 pts so the lower spec gets a discount in price anyway. It is also a warhost so does not take up support slots and so forth. I would however switch the Night Spinner Troupe back to 3 night spinners as is more conventional for provide a contrasting light artillery option.

Now you will realise that the above is in part a response to the current discussion in other threads. I decided to use the Yme-Loc list so that I could put together viable lists using Cobras. I love the WWII German StuG IIIs and the Cobra seems the ultimate Eldar version of the same philosophy. Below are some notes from the one game I have managed thus far.

I used 2 pairs of Cobras against a Squat army.

Avatar

600 2 Cobra, 4 Guardians, 2 Wave Serpents
450 2 Cobra
350 Farseer, 5 Falcons, 2 Fire Storms
350 Farseer, 5 Falcons, 2 Fire Storms

325 4 Shining Spear + Autarch, 2 Swooping Hawks + Exarch

175 3 Night Spinners
175 3 Night Spinners

275 4 Guardians, 3 Heavy Weapons, 3 Wraithguard

100 4 Rangers
100 4 Rangers
100 4 Rangers

Life was particularly brutal failing activation after activation. We kept a count of the number of ones I rolled for activations during the game - the Squat Commander has the records but I think it was something like 15 ones out of 29 rolls. You will notice that despite lots of previous list consideration/composition I managed to turn up with 3 unit Night Spinner formations that ought to have been 4 night spinners and 1 fire storm (complete oversight).

It was a draw in the end but the big Squat Beast (war-engine thing) was just 1 DC away from destruction. I once again forgot to call in the Avatar. Got pounded by megaweapon artillery and just could not get through the biker and infantry screens to the heavier Squat beasties.

The mechanised infantry support for the BTS Cobra formation was useful in keeping them going but not much use in fighting otherwise. They probably did help keep that lot of Cobras out of engagements. The other pair was rather more carefully handled.

So some testing evidence from actual playing with a 450 pt pair of Cobras.

Whilst it seems a good idea to have a Void Spinner equivalent, I am not sure this is at all necessary as the Eldar have several alternatives.

I have discovered 3-4 Night Spinners to be highly effective as a deterent. And they provide good mid-table coverage - you just need to adopt slightly different tactics

I have also used the Phoenix bombers to good effect as an alpha strike formation in the enemy deployment zone.