I agree with BL. This being a Super Mega Deformed Macross 40k flyer or not, let's get some good stats for a true marine interceptor. Regardless, we're going to proxy it anyways on the board so ugliness aside, I'll stat I like your two configuration options and the different play styles by giving one skimmer. Going to be a while before I'm going to be able to come up for air to play test this but I'm excited to see how it works out.

One Q: would the sky hammer missiles be single use? I haven't seen the 40k stats and am legitimately ignorant on that tip

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True, I think it's just my dislike of the miniature as an aircraft. It looks like a bladeless helicopter rather than a jet interceptor. It's a shame the new forgeworld storm eagle looks far more capable of intercepting a supersonic jet, shame it's also a transport (but then they are marines and at the end of the day everything they have should be dedicated to getting space borne troops into combat while being supported by other arms).

It's the trade off between:

1) What it looks like/ is similar to.
2) What the background has traditionally (i.e. not recent, let's get more money from spamming kits) said they need.
3) What is necessary to make a rounded, distinct gaming force.

It's the number 3 that dictates that it be an aircraft. I like your two options, so people who have no issue with thunderbolts being used across multiple armies can use it in a close support role can. :-D

I'm already skulking the interwebs looking for a good proxy

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Skyhammer Missiles are NOT one-shot

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Nice. More boom for the marines

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...No it isn't. The Thunderhawk is 12/12/10. The Stormtalon is 11/11/11. The Thunderhawk has a total armour of 46, the Stormtalon has a total armour of 44. And frontal armour usually matters more in Epic (which'd make it 36 to 33). The Storm Talon is slightly more armoured than a Rhino. 6+RA is being generous.



So stick the word Storm or Strike in front of it. Or don't give anything Disrupt, since it's an ability that makes no logical sense (OMG! Something is hovering and shooting us! PH33R!!!!!).



1) Nothing says these are ground attack weapons only.
2) You've underestimated their range. 60" translates to 60cm range. Knock 15cm off for being aircraft and you get 45cm.
3) An Autocannon is AT6+. A two-shot Autocannon is also AT6+. A three-shot Autocannon (which is basically what the Skyhammers are) has reached the point where it should either be AT5+ or should get an extra shot, IMO (it's actually better than twin-linking a Reaper Autocannon - you have an average of two hits vs. an average of 1.8 hits).

EDIT: Would anyone else be interested in blatantly retconning the Storm Eagle into being faster than it is and then having THAT be the/a fighter?

The Storm Eagle could be:

5+ RA, fighter-bomber
Transport four units (Devastators, Tacticals or Scouts)
Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter 15cm AP4+/AA5+ FxF
Vengeance Launcher 30cm 2x AP5+ FxF
And one could even add:
Twin-linked Lascannons 30cm AT4+/AA4+
or
Hellfire Missiles 30cm AT4+, FxF

Available to Chaos, too.

I mean, the damn thing actually looks like it could be a fighter, which is more than can really be said for the Storm Talon...

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Huh? I had 11/11/10 in mind. But remember that all other aircrafts have 10/10/10 (even Marauders, Phoenix Bombers and Vampire Raiders) but get a 6+ save. Valkyries/Vultures have 11/11/10 and get a 5+ save.
So i see no reason to change the save.
The Skimmer-version's save is worse because it has to hover on the spot in intervals so it would be more vulnerable than a Valkyrie/Vulture. But i will change it from LV to AV to be more in line with the Valkyrie/Vulture.

@Skyhammer:
a) It speciifically states that it is used to wreak enemy armour. Nothing about aircrafts.
b) I wanted to avoid the "OH NOOOO an aircraft with a 45cm ranged AA attack!!!1!1!11oneoneelevel"-crowd and just kept the range for the Skimmer version. I will change that but will use 45cm instead of 60cm as that feels a bit extreme. Or does anyone want 60cm?
c) My WhES gives an Autocannon AP4+/AT6+ if it had 3 shots. Extra shots only come into play at 6+ shots. BTW a Reaper Autocannon is the same as a sawn off twin-linked Autocannon in Wh40k.

The Storm Eagle looks a bit to big and bulky for being a fighter

So now we are at:

Space Marine Storm Talon Gunship (Intercept Configuration)
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Aircraft Fighter 5+ n/a n/a
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Twin Assault Cannon 15cm AP4+/AT4+/AA4+ Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc

Notes: Reinforced Armour.

250pts for two.

And this:
Space Marine Storm Talon Gunship (Escort Configuration)
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 35cm 6+ n/a n/a
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Twin Assault Cannon 15cm AP4+/AT4+/AA4+ Forward Arc
Skyhammer Missile Launcher 45cm AP4+/AT6+ Disrupt, Fixed Forward Arc

Notes: Reinforced Armour, Skimmer.

Upgrade to any ground formation: Add a single Storm Talon for 75pts.

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Except the line of thinking should not proceed:
What save does their armor value dictate? Give them that save.
Do they have Ceramite Plating? If yes, give them reinforced armor.

You have to look at how tough they are overall as well. And it is a flimsy, flimsy aircraft that happens to deal OK with melta weapons.

This is how armor saves progress statistically:
6+ (17%)
6+RA (31%)
5+ (33%)
4+ (50%)
5+RA (56%)
3+ (67%)
4+RA (75%)
2+(83%)
3+RA (89%)

You're telling me that thing should be harder to kill than a Predator? Three times as tough as a Thunderbolt or Marauder?

6+ RA makes sense and means it isn't suddenly the toughest fighter in the game by a ridiculous amount. Without Ceramite plating, it'd deserve a 5+, tops - the addition of ceramite doesn't entitle the Stormtalon to a near-doubling of its defensive capabilities.



It says that they're perfect for turning armoured vehicles into scrap metal. A debatable claim for an S7 weapon, but that's by the by. Doesn't mean they can't be used for other things. It also doesn't mention infantry, yet you gave it an AP stat.



A fair point. 45cm seems eminently reasonable. A 45cm AA attack might be a bit much. Though if it were 6+ I think it'd be OK.



So it is. I was forgetting that the ordinary Autocannon has two shots. It's still statistically equivalent to twin linking (slightly better, in fact), and so I'd say AT5+ might not be unjustifiable. Among other things, it says they're "perfect for turning armoured vehicles into scrap metal".



And the Stormtalon looks a bit tiny, pathetic and unflyable to be a fighter. And, like I said: fighter-bomber. It's not that much bigger than a Thunderbolt (I think).

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Yes! Far easier to make out if plasticard for us novices, better looking and as it has some transport ability still fits with a marines role.

Toughest Fighters in the game are the Eldar Nightwing with 4+ save and the Eldar Phoenix Bomber with 5+RA. Both are exepctionally manouverable and protected by holofields.
The Storm Talon can halt mid-air and turn on the spot...ok the new Dark Eldar aircrafts too (because all Wh40k aircrafts are skimmers which can move extra fast if they choose to) but in Apocalypse aircrafts have to move at least 36" (Eldar 18") where only aircrafts with Hover Mode can act as true Skimmers.

An aircraft with proper wings will crash if you destroy one wing. The Storm Talon looks as if his wings are only cosmetic. It is tiny, so hard to hit anyway.

How about a compromise?
Save of 5+ both as aircraft and as skimmer but without RA because the use of Ceramite Plating is questionable at best with max armour of 11.

At least Strength 4 and either 3 shots or a blast template grants an AP value in my WhES.

Btw: If we give the Skyhammer an AA shot it would be the first missile weapon with an AA value in Epic.

On calculating AA values:
Only AP = AA is AP value +1
AP and AT = AA value same as AP value
Only AT = AA value same as AT value

At least for Imperial AA capable weapons. Orks and Eldar break this somewhat.

And a tiny size is a good qualification for a fighter

Space Marine Storm Talon Gunship (Intercept Configuration)
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Aircraft Fighter 5+ n/a n/a
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Twin Assault Cannon 15cm AP4+/AT4+/AA4+ Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Fixed Forward Arc

250pts for two.

And this:
Space Marine Storm Talon Gunship (Escort Configuration)
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 35cm 5+ n/a n/a
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Twin Assault Cannon 15cm AP4+/AT4+/AA4+ Forward Arc
Skyhammer Missile Launcher 45cm AP4+/AT6+ Disrupt, Fixed Forward Arc

Notes: Skimmer.

Upgrade to any ground formation: Add a single Storm Talon for 75pts.

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Just out of interest, are people expecting to have this put into the main Marine list? Wondering if there's a consensus on it.

I wasn't, if only because I hate the thing with the fiery passion of a thousand suns.

Also, a Thunderbolt can fake being it.

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If you want to make it tougher because it's maneuverable and won't get hit much, then it should have RA because maneuverability doesn't go away when you're shot with something that pierces armour well.

I'm fine with 5+ - it's reasonable (especially if the Valkyrie is). But your logic seems weird, IMO.



Nope. You forget the Hunter and the Hyperios.



So do half the Imperial Navy units...



Seems OK.



I'm not sure this one's necessary, honestly. It feels redundant with a Land Speeder.

Also, those missiles are way, way better at killing troops than killing tanks right now. I'd make them either 5+/5+ or 4+/5+.

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I'm not normally one for Such a big change, but i can see justification for replacing the Thunderbolt with this in all suitable Marine lists, or at the least adding it to suitable lists in addition to Thunderbolts. It's clear this plane is now to be a fundamental and core part of marine armies henceforth.

BL's fighter stats look good, though they'd not be worth 250pts.

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Worth considering as a fighter (I don't think 250pts is out for 2x3+&2x4+ intercepting) not keen on the land speeder fudge. Its a fighter or AV not both

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