First off, I think the next draft should add some of the new skimmer units (big cats and walker bugs) from the Indigent Armouire books from Father Waldo. When I have some proxies in hand I'll be glad to test them.

The Lynx
As to the big cats, should they be a Warhost? In any case, what should their units be called? "Companions of Vaul" (yes, a cat joke; IA11 did bring the Gryx back for the Corsair psyker).

Some other things I've noticed collecting and building my list:

Vypers as upgrades... wouldn't Firestorms make more sense?
It strikes me a bit strangely that Vypers are available as an add-on to most units. I guess I see that they add a missing anti-personnel capacity to the Engines of Vaul, but I don't quite grasp their presence, based on theme or fluff, and really don't get why the are available as an add-on to the Swords of Vaul.

Perhaps it would be more thematic alternative to allow a 1 or 2 Firestorm(s) option instead of 3 Vypers, so long as that is not thought to give too much access to AA? It seems the IG lists have lots of ability to take the Hydra as a company upgrade (at least in the Minervan list); as such, 1-2 Hydras can be attached to Superheavy companies, so doing likewise with Firestorms seems to being some parity.

Engines of Vaul
I started another topic on the absence of the Void Spinner superheavy artillery tank on another thread, and most seem to agree that it should be available to Yme-Loc. I suppose we will see how things continue and if that view continues to hold.

Regarding switching Vypers out for 1 or 2 Firestorm(s), it would also make it plausible to attach a command unit (Farseer or Autarch) to an Engines of Vaul Warhost, with the Firestorm acting as transport.

Swords of Vaul
I think it could be interesting to take some inspiration from the more recent Eldar tank formations from Apocalypse. The Cloudstrike formation with its ability for Falcons to enter game as flyers would be an interesting change (this could likewise be extended to the Lynx formation, as it is in IA11). Likewise, moving Fire Prisms to a Sunstorm formation, and adding the option to perform a combined shot effect (perhaps, say, 2 combined as MW5+, 4 as MW3+, 6 as TK) would be quite a unique addition and pull things back towards what has happened with 40k since the end of Specialist Games.

It would also be great to see Warp Hunters added as a "swap for Falcon" option on Swords of Vaul (if that formation remains). Likewise, having these as a Troupe would work.

Hornets
Likewise, the way that Hornets are allocated is strange. They are the fastest skimmer in the list (40cm vs 35cm for the fast grav tanks), but can only be attached to slower units (Jetbikes move 35cm). Perhaps they might do better as an independent unit, or as 0-6 Falcon replacements in a Swords of Vaul Warhost? They are, after all, a grav tank, and on that basis, I think there is an argument for them being available as a Warhost choice instead of a Troupe. Even if not, being able to purchase them as a separate Troupe (ala the Saim-Hann list) would hamstring them less.

It might be cool to make the Yme-Loc variant of the Swords of Vaul a Hornet Warhost, with Cloudstrike and Sunstorm Warhosts then being comprised of Falcons and Fire Prisms, respectively.

can't speak for the minervans, but you can only take 1 of each upgrade for a company in a steel legion list, so that's 1 hydra rather than 3-6 (unless you were referring to hydra batteries as support formations?)

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You're quite right; it is the Minervans that can add 1-2 Hydras models as a company upgrade.

Vypers are good upgrades for mechanized infantry because they are cheap, can match the speed of the transports, and can screen the more important stuff (i. e. they can absorb a shot meant for either infantry or AVs).

For pure AV formations, vypers serve as cheap bulk and fodder. They can also 'take' suppression so more valuable falcons can be allowed to shoot.

Also, people tend to have more vypers than they know what to do with, so this gives people another way to use them.

Another thought is that Yme-Loc isn't just supposed to be the 'heavy tank' list, but more of an infantry-lite list.

I thought the idea was that they had so few personnel that every guardian with a license to drive was given a vehicle. That's also why the list isn't Titan-heavy, because driving one of those is akin to an aspect path (it requires specialized training.

My thinking is that if a guardian is driving, then it belongs in the list. I would even go so far as to limit the amount of wraith constructs.

Interesting points, indeed.

Given titans are likewise emphasized in the uh, limited fluff available, and including your thoughts on "Guardian piloted, limited wraith constructs", perhaps War Walkers would be a more suitable accompaniment to the Engines of Vaul? Granted, this would reduce their movement by 5cm, but it (thematically) does mean one fewer Guardian driver per model/unit.

Keeping Yme-Loc from being the Vyper swarm is likewise an effort to differentiate it from Saim-Hann, which IMHO is the place for such a list. Switching the Vyper upgrades to Hornet upgrades would likewise reduce the number of Guardian crewmen inside... perhaps a dual scatter laser load out on these "attachable" hornets would be in order? I know that variant loadouts are generally frowned upon, but clearly some do still exist in the lists (and for good reason).

Yeah, I'm still not sure how hornets ought to be handled. I do agree that they could probably replace vypers as upgrades for tanks formations. I'm less supportive of including them in wind rider hosts (only for thematic reason, though). I guess I'm suggesting keeping like with like - mini tanks with tanks, heavy jetbikes with jetbikes.

What if vypers (and maybe war walkers) were allowed as upgrades for gaurdian troupes, in lieu of wraith things, then have hornets (instead of vypers) as the upgrades for the SoV and EoV hosts.

The jump-jet war walkers (wasps) could be allowed somewhere as well.

Finally, has the stat line of the hornet been settled, or is the one in the compendium just someone's opinion? I ask because I don't necessarily agree with it. I think its mainly due to it being way better than a vyper at the same point cost, and arguably better than a falcon.

I think it might be better if it were an AV with armor of 6. That way you would trade the AP liability for the weaker armor, while at the same time maintaining some continuity between the different sized tanks. That would also serve to better differentiate the hornet from vyper, and keep the hornet from coming out of the wraithgate.

Then there is the weapon load, which is out of step with the rest of the eldar vehicles, but that more of forgeworld's fault. I'm also not convinced it needs to be speed 40cm, but that doesn't bother me quite as much as the other things.

I'm somewhat inclined to agree on the Hornet; it does seem to follow Forge World's decision to make it a much better Vyper (and reflective of the view that, in 40k, the Vyper has been costed out of usefulness).

Comparing the pulse lasers between the Falcon and the Hornet, I'm left to wonder if it is conventional to decrease the hit number by 1 when dealing with twin-linked weapons. It looks like the Vampire, which is armed with 2x twin-linked pulse lasers, is quite inferior to the Hornet (which is armed with two pulse lasers).

Frankly, the pulse lasers are treated so inconsistently across the list that it is a bit tough to rationalize things.

Finally, the topic of Titans: the only blurb of background we have from Yme-Loc specifically mentions titans. As such, one would think they might be somewhat more prevalent than in other lists (spare, of course, the Titan Clan).

The question is, is it possible to do so in a balanced, playable manner?

Re: the "small numbers, every pilot they can get", trope, I'm familiar with that trope in the context of the Minervan list and the Tau tank sept list, but hadn't previously seen it written about Yme-Loc. Can you link me?

That said, I do agree that having less focus (perhaps the same amount as other themed lists) on Wraith units. Likewise, though, we ought to be limiting jetbike style units to what is common to the other lists.

Perhaps, though I rely on an idea of a list that doesn't exist in E:A (or even NetEA): "vanilla" Eldar. Perhaps a non-descript (i.e., no specific tactics described) named Craftworld ought to be chosen, and a list written for it as a baseline for the others?

To expound on that, I mean:

• Fewer aspect warriors than Biel-Tan
• Fewer jetbikes (including Vypers and Shining Spears) than Saim-Hann
• Fewer Wraith units than Iyanden
• Fewer Rangers than Alaitoc
• Fewer Guardians than Ulthwe
• Fewer tanks and titans than Yme-Loc
• Fewer Howling Banshees than Iybraesil
• Much fewer titans than Fir Iolarion
• Fewer Harlequins than Lugganath
• Fewer Bonesingers than Il-Kaithe

There is no source for my quote, other than what I infer would be the overall design 'theme' of an Eldar tank list. It's not even Yme-Loc specific, but more of a way to answer the question of why would a given group of Eldar do X instead doing Y like all the other Eldar do.

It all stems from the fact that, aside from the big 5 craftworlds plus the one in FW's IA 11, there is no real explaination given for how the fluff for any of the other craftworlds is actually reflected in their army structures. That means someone has to make it up.

Naturally.

What would you think of having some Knights, and a mixed walker/tank focus in the list, given that War Walkers and Knights are titan like without being Wraith units and stealing Iyanden's thunder?

Finally, I wonder if Imbolc is perhaps the best choice for the "vanilla" Craftworld, as they were the single commonly-featured Craftworld not granted a special FoC in the 40k 3rd ed. Codex: Craftworld Eldar?

Instead of trying to shoehorn everything into the list - hornets, void spinners, faux-void spinners, what does the list lose for the benefit of bigger tank formations, bigger support tank formations, falcons+SHT in core etc?. At the moment there are lots of strenghts to the list and very few, if any, weaknesses

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Even though I think you were commenting on stuff said in another thread, maybe you could offer some thematic thoughts on what you think the weaknesses of Yme-Loc should be.

Aside from the standard eldar weaknesses (no leaders, weak armor), the list has the following weaknesses compared to the Biel Tan list:

No access to aspect warhosts. We could make a further change be only allowing 4-strong AW troupes instead of the 6-strong troupe in the list.

More expensive access to farseers (175pts vs 150pts), which directly affects access to the double retain ability and the ability to summon the avatar. I've suggested having guardians loose access to wraith things and replacing those with vehicles (either vypers or war walkers).

We could reduce the warhost:troupe ratio to 1:2 from 1:3, although that would be a big change.

In the end, I think the overarching strength/weaknesses is more AVs/less infantry. That is a double edged sword because what you gain in survivability you pay for with lesser numbers. Add to that the fact that Eldar vehicles don't have good survivability in the first place, and you have a major weakness built into the basic premise of the army.