This is entirely your perogative. I wonder if this opens up a possibility for a replacement suppliment to be worked on then. I will talk with Moscovian regarding this.

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Of course, I wouldn't begrudge anyone who wants to put in a year and a half of writing and testing effort like I have from taking Epic Mechanicus' print slot.

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Ah my bad. It`s some time since i read Titanicus.

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Giving a list priority over a supplement seems ass-backwards to me.

Allowing the author of a supplement to gainsay the AC is fer worse. It sets a precedent where the AC loses the ability to effectively manage his lists. You end up with a situation where anyone can say "Oh, I'm working on supplement XXX and this is what I need..." I'm entirely aware that's not the case here, but we need to allow the AC freedom to develop his lists as he sees fit with the input of the community. Given the length of the post Vaaish wrote and the multiple concessions he's made, it's clear he's taking input.

E&C - If you feel you can't use the list in it's current form, there are others, like STM's list, that may work. Even with a baby you can find the time to game. I know. You can develop your own list if neccessary. The supplement has suffered a setback, nothing more. Don't use the threat of cancellation as a lever. It's below you.

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Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

This is a rather specific and unique situation : Vaaish was only put in place as AC because I recommended him based on my belief that he had committed to do his best to finish a/the Skitarii PDF list for the supplement within 6 months... I find out now that he didn't even read the story section of the supplement.

Considering the difficulty this has caused, I don't see any supplement writer ever allowing such a thing to happen again. Heck, I was warned by Moscovian that this exact thing could well happen, but I moronically decided to do it anyway.


I set myself a limit of 6 months before returning to Ad Mech development actively. 2 months to go on that.

However, with altered unit stats such as faster Ordinati, the playstyle of any variant list is fundamentally altered to the extent that the style of list I require is impossible to build using the same interrelated stats & flawed points system etc.

It's no threat, with things as they are the supplement is de facto cancelled. I'm ok with that.

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I agree with CS. This is not a matter of who has the better list or which one of you is right. These are creative differences and I see no reason why the ERC should step in at all. Vaaish is the AC and his efforts take precedence.

E&C, your creative efforts for the supplement are appreciated. If you want to move forward with it, put a pin in it, or cancel it, the choice has been and always will be yours. FWIW, I think your supplement has a LOT of lists and could easily survive without one. I don't know whether you think it can, however, and that is more important. I would discourage you from scrapping everything - that seems unnecessary. It's not like it takes up space in your home. If you need help with something, let me know.

Clearly, I am disappointed in the situation in general. The only thing good about this is that it serves as an example for future efforts and other players as to their relationship to the AC and what discussions need to be had beforehand.

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I'd rank the Skitarii PDF list as being the 2nd most important list in the supplement, right after AMTL.
Pulling it out leaves a gaping wound at the heart of the project.
I'd rather put it out of its misery than have it released with only half a heart.


*shrug*
I might be able to re-use most of the Ork datafaxes in another project. The storyline and Ad Mech stuff seems a bust.

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It's your choice. It might be best to leave it on the back burner until a suitable list appears? It seems like you've got most of the work done, so set it aside. It may be as much as a year or two, but good work is timeless. We'll appreciate it whenever it's published.

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Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

That seems unlikely based on the changes that are ongoing, that preclude a suitable list from being possible without conflicting unit stats & pricing structures.

It also makes an absurdity of my stepping down to allow someone else to finish it for the supplement faster in the first place.


AFAIK too much delay and we lose the print window, the agreement with the printing company only has a certain number of slots, and a time limit on when they may be used.

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I guess i really don't see the glaring error which makes Vaaish's list unsuitable for a defensive force?
Add transport vehicles and remove the fortifications from the Barans and you would have a poor-tech attack army.

I'm under the impression that fortifications should be a "army list" of it's own where any army could use some percentage of points to buy fortifications from.
Clearly this should be for scenarios only not for Tournament Games unless the Turney Organiszer agrees to allow them.
Fortress Walls, Defence Lasers, MIssile Silos, etc could have a good place in supplement specific scenarios too. No need to fixate them to a given army list.

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An interesting idea, BL, worth a thread of it's own.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I still don't see why this means the Epic Mechanicus supplement has to be cancelled. Most of the work has already been done. It would be a shame to throw away all of that hard work and time invested by E&C. maybe I am being a bit dense but don't see why it is not beyond salvage.

Even if E&C does nt see why the current Skitarii list (together with the proposed changes that Vaaish has indicated that he would be happy to accept) can be used in his supplement, surely it should be easy to make a few small changes to match E&C's supplement requirements:

1) Add more defence installations. I think STM has some good ideas for installations in his FW Stenburg list- these would be ideal to add to make list more defensively focussed and match the storyline.

2) If E&C wants to limit the number of Titan configurations there is nothing stopping him including a more restricted choice in his supplement list.

3) there is nothing stopping us having Macharius in Allies section in the main Skitarii list but in support section in the Supplement PDF list.

As far as I can tell the above are E&C's main objections to main Skitarii list once Vaaish's propoised changes have been made. If I have missed one then i apologise. But the point stands in that it shoud be relatively easy to just make a few small changes to the main Skitarii list to get a more defensively oreintated PDF list.

Just simply add new unit (defence installations), restrict another (reduced choice of Titan configurations) and change availability (switch Macharius back to support).

That means in the meantime we can concetrate on playtesting those units which will be central to ALL Adeptus Mechanicus lists: Ordinati Minorus, Majoris, Skitarii, Paretorians, Robots.

Cheers

James

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It would also be possible for E&C to include the Skitarii list inhis supplement but use a paragraph or two to describe what the player has to change so that it fits more his own written fluff. Eg: "To use this list in scenarios based on the background of this supplement don't use transport vehicles, make use of the fortifications described on page XX and disallow the following Titan weapons:...".

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Fundamentally broken costings system on Ordinatii that renders most of them useless - in an attempt to fix that most Ordinatus Majoris have been removed, and Ordinatus Minori have been increased in speed rather than re-working the cost system, leading to:

Ordinatus Minori too fast to be representative of a "crawler", they have been made into void shielded heavy tanks instead.

Flawed list construction style favouring Upgrades over separate Formations.


These kinds of problems are fundamental to the new list style, rendering impossible to modify in a minor manner.

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