I think it is good that we're taking a step back and examining where each of us is headed with our various lists. The tighter the focus of a list, the better it showcase the particular aspect of the Mechanicum at War that we're trying to portray.

Also, tighter lists are easier to playtest (fewer variables means less tests to get satisfactory coverage) and harder to abuse (there are fewer odd or unintentional combinations that the designer and the testers miss).

With that said, I'd also advocate keeping focus on making a balanced, NetEA Approved, Tournament ready list, from which the variants can draw on unit stats and common formations. I'll promise that this is where I'm focusing my games, until such time as the list is deemed done.

With that out of the way, I'd like to try to summarize lists and their missions, as I see them:

The theme, then, of the core Adeptus Mechanicus PDF list, is the Skitarii augmented soldiers (with Servitor and Robot auxilia), and the weird and wonderful Mechanicus Ordinati, with a secondary focus on the many kinds of Titans that support them. It should play well both offensively (with mounted assault infantry) and defensively (with heavy, slow guns).

My list Stenberg PDF focuses on the forge world where the battle takes place - I want to portray the many interesting (and dangerous) installations on a Forge that battles can take place around. I'll be looking to follow the core list closely for units and formations, but the list will play much more defensively, since a large fraction of the force will be immobile. It has no particular ambition of being a tournament list, but I hope to make it balanced for friendly play, where scenery matters. By the way, I really like the Curtain Wall; mind if I snitch it?

The Armoured Division is the Mechanicus on the offensive, possibly on foreign worlds; Less jury-rigged guns and more heavy, reliable, massed armour and elite infantry. Being a lesser threadhead myself, I'll probably buy into it one day, and model up a bunch of tanks too. Though I'll probably wait until a reliable source for Macharius Omegas and CAPSLOCK/ALLCAPS tanks materializes... Those are cool tanks, and they deserve a good home list. This list will play offensively, in an implacable, methodical style.

My Explorator Mission list focuses on small scientific expeditions encountering hostile aliens (either defending their base or making a drop into hostile territory). It is really mostly intended for scenario games, but I wanted a way of wargaming the more "cinematic" encounters. It is also a way of getting Dropships in, in a setting where they don't skew the focus of the other lists. I do love Dropships, and think that any sci-fi military force should have them, but they have no place in the more defensive PDF lists. This list focuses on aerospace operations, and has very little in the way of heavy support - no Titans, or Majorii, or heavy tanks here, but compensating with cheaper aircraft and an extra spaceship. E&C: Do feel free to use the Orbiter for the Armoured Division, if you like, they seem similar - thin-skinned, large craft that can ferry vehicles. There's also a Titan Landing Craft, but that's very experimental

The Forge World Proxima fan list shares the same mission as the core list - it is generalist PDF list, with a slightly more radical feel - nothing Imperial here. I'm not sure I agree with the premise, but it's always useful to get new ideas on the table.

I'm omitting AMTL and Knights, here - while they share a fluff background, they are not "Ad mech variants" like the ones above.

I had a start on an Ordo Reductor list too; I'll scrap that,since it looks like the Armoured Division is filling that space quite adequately.

I hope I've covered the positions adequately; At the very least I hope to have made my personal opinion clear: I think there is space for several different lists depicting the Mechanicum at war, I think it is great that so many people are passionate about developing the Adeptus Mechanicus story, and I'm looking forward to working on the other lists (developing and testing) once the core list is completed and stamped approved.

Hi- thanks STM for such a detailed run down of each of the AM lists. Speaking personally I think you have nailed the crux of each list, with the exception of the Forge World Proxima fan list which I have nt followed and know nothing about.

But I think you have nicely stated the clear rationale for core Adeptus Mechanicus PDF list, Stenberg PDF, and Armoured Division for more tournament style lists, plus the Explorator Mission list seems great for friendly scenario play.

So if we have a clearly rationale for Stenberg PDF and Armoured Division lists then the only question is how we tweak the core Adeptus Mechanicus PDF list.

Thanks

James

Hi- thanks STM for such a detailed run down of each of the AM lists. Speaking personally I think you have nailed the crux of each list, with the exception of the Forge World Proxima fan list which I have nt followed and know nothing about.

But I think you have nicely stated the clear rationale for core Adeptus Mechanicus PDF list, Stenberg PDF, and Armoured Division for more tournament style lists, plus the Explorator Mission list seems great for friendly scenario play.

So if we have a clearly rationale for Stenberg PDF and Armoured Division lists then the only question is how we tweak the core Adeptus Mechanicus PDF list.

Thanks

James

I would suggest this, or at least something close to it, of course: download/file.php?id=3743

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I am fine with something similar as it has effectively moved the more Imperial Guard elements into Armoured Division putting the focus back onto Ordinatus Minoris and Majoris.

However it is important that we get the input and direction of Vaaish. As AC we would need his take on the main "core" Skitarii list, even if you and STM are able to draw up 2 brilliant variant lists.

Vaaish- any comments??

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I somehow missed this thread. It's been a busy last couple of weeks.

I think that we see some aspects of the AdMech differently and the roles of the lists show some of that.

I would put the Skitarii core list as functionally showing the Admech with all their crazy tech and rare units in an offensive role. This is the army you'd see put out by the Mechanicus to protect their interests or support the titan legions in battle. It should support a variety of play styles though all should feel different from other imperial lists, especially guard. It's not as specialized as, say, an explorator force and doesn't include installations like you'd see with something like the defense of Gryphonne IV. It should be centered around the Skitarii and Minorus. Units should be around the base speed of infantry to promote a more implacable advance in keeping with the titans theme. Majoris should be few in number and more centerpiece units rather than common.

My goal for the structure of most armies would be one of upgraded Hypaspists, minorii, robots, and sagitarii with limited support from majoris, titan, or heavy/superheavy tanks. Ideally, some form of robots or servitors would act in a role similar to armor in other lists but I think the repercussions of removing the russes even though it seems like few people ever taken them would be detrimental to the list at this stage and may have to come at a later point.

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-Vaaish

Well, the lists I need for the supplement are a PDF list, and an Armoured list. I don't need a generic "Skitarii" list, really.

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Unfortunately, that is exactly what the core lists are supposed to be. Marines and IG are generic. it's the starting point for all supplemental and focused lists.

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-Vaaish

That's a common mistake to make, but they're not generic. Especially not Steel Legion list, which is a pretty focused mech inf list that doesn't really work when used elsewise.

And "core" lists don't exist in Epic.

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I agree with you AoC that Vasish seems to have missed the name of the list he's been working on; I created it as a PDF list from day one

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It doesn't much matter what the name of it is. The list currently labeled PDF is the core Skitarii list (as defined by the use of "core" in the first post in this thread and based on the example of the marine list in teh EA main rulebook) whether it's called the PDF list, Explorator list, or Ave Mechanicus. You've already made the point of distinction that you don't consider the existing list as representative of a PDF list regardless of the title based on your statement that you don't want a generic list for your supplement.

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-Vaaish

This is where I disagree with you E&C. For me the 3 rulebook lists and to a lesser extent the Biel-Tan list and the 2 initial Chaos lists put out by GW (BL & L&TD) were all core lists.

There are specific to specific campaigns (in the case of the first four) but are otherwise generic in that they include all of the armies main options. For each one a wide variety of armies can be built up from each.

Certainly different to the variant lists published by GW (siegemasters, feral orks, speed freekz and white scars) which are much more tailored to specific theme.

For me the importance of these core lists is that they establish most of the core stats for main units. Stats that can then be tweaked for variant units in variant lists.

In the case of the Adeptus Mechanicus if we can get most of the unit stats bottomed out in a core Skitarii list then they will be easier to tweak in the variant lists.

At the moment I regard the Skitarii list that Vaaish is finishing as the core AM list. With some tweaking of stats and some trimming of units (as already discussed in previous threads) and this list should be good to go. Simultaneously we can then advance the lists proposed by you & STM- both distinctive from each other and also distinctive from core list.

Cheers

James

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So is that not the lists that you & STM have started?

Both AFAIk will still be using many units from the core Skitarii list- hence the importance in getting the stats finalised in core list.

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