We can simply move the majoris out of the core formations and put it in the support. They are supposed to be rare and iconic and putting them in support limits the availability and prevents upgrades thereby removing the ability to take a CLP for indirect fire. THat will leave the only options the CLP can affect as the Quake cannon and The AML.



A price drop still won't affect the underlying issue with them being easily broken. Neither will fearless since it will just mean they sit there unable to do anything but unable to die outright which makes it frustrating for the owning player and the opponent. They'll still be easily suppressed and broken with fearless and they already activate on a 3+. That's why I was looking at this route. It only adds a single special rule to the Skitarii list so it's not out of place and solves the issues with the robots by making them harder to suppress and break keeping the formation useful longer without resorting to adding more units.

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-Vaaish

Works for me.



I don't mind them breaking so much, actually, if only they were cheaper. They can still block lanes of advance and generally look threatening (should they manage to rally). It's the blastmarker and hackdown damage that usually wipes them out faster than robots "ought" to be wiped out, it looks odd that they "panic" and "scatter"...

The problem is that AdMech is very good at blocking lanes and generally looking threatening with demi-centuries, crusaders, and minorus/Majoris. Adding another unit that does this doesn't help the overall list IMO.

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-Vaaish

That seems like a good solution to me.

_________________
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To be honest I feel the same way as Signal.

Maybe it's the accountant in me but I prefer something that gives consistent returns every single turn of shooting rather than a one-off attack.

I can live with slow firing weapons but not single shot.

Just my personal preference.

James

Personally i would go one step further and restrict CLP to just AMLs. But that is just my take on Quake Cannons.

At least restricting flamethrowers and sonic beams to direct fire only is a good start.

+1 for this suggestion.

Achieves the same objective without any fiddly restrictions.

Cheers

James

I get the feeling that putting the Majorus in Support is just going to result in no Majorii ever being taken at all. Is there even a problem with the Ordinatus Majoris? It's not like I really see them showing up with much frequency, and they're supposed to be one of the fundamental elements of the Adeptus Mechanicus. I think moving them to Support would simply make them no longer show up (also, it reduces the Core choices to Hypaspists and Minorii, which seems likely to simply encourage players to take 2 formations of QC/CLP Minorii.)

I'm starting to tend more towards E&C's suggestion of pre-built Ordinatus variants. Individualizing pricing would allow for more control over specific variants of Ordinatus.

I'd also like to see the Skitarii get some distance from the War Gryphons list. Partially because I loathe the existing pdf format (I hate having to rotate the image everytime I switch between the army list and the summary) but also because it would break the tie between Ordinatus and Titan pricing. I think they should still be allowed to take AMTL-styled variable titans, but simply have it reference the other list, instead of keeping them tied together.

That would then allow for the modification of existing elements to make them fit the Ordinatus strengths/weaknesses, without having ramifications on the balancing of Titans.

I highly doubt that putting the majoris in the support slot will do anything to people taking it. If people want to take them, they still will. It's not like every Admech army is filled to the rims with majoris
Even though the two pdf's are together, they are separate lists. The Skitarii list tells you to reference the War Gryphons list for the titans.

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-Vaaish

the only reason people are likely to take it right now, is that they need another Core option and don't want more Hypaspists. There aren't a lot of people taking Majorii anyway. Is there even a problem with the Majorus, except for potentially people taking the Mars with a CLP Minorii?

That is one possible reason, but hardly the only reason to take a majoris. To say it's the only reason is a bit unfounded. I would find that line of reasoning to taking a majoris a bit suspect myself. I'd be just about as likely to take a minorus coy if I were tired to taking hypaspists as I would a majois.

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-Vaaish

Got an actual game in this monday, fielding 6K AdMech using the 2.02B list as defenders in a custom D-Day scenario (links and pics over here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=22778)

While this was hardly a standard tournament environment, and caveats therefore applies, I do have same thoughts from the game (apart from "Wow, that was awesome") that pertain to the performance of the List:

- The Colossi were wiped quickly, as usual, though little can be learned from this. 12 stands of Terminators will do that to anyone. It would have been nice if they'd had powerfists, so they could at least have done some damage back...

- Forge Knights were distinctly mediocre, but I think that's operator error. I need to shed blast markers faster to keep them operational. A Leader option for them would be nice, for instance having a Tech-Priest character upgrade available.

- Crusaders did well, mixed in with Skitarii. The intermingled formations become barrage magnets, of course, but it gives them a strong CC boost. Combined with the extra cheapish activation and the option to use them as scout screens as well, if requirements so dictate, makes them a very versatile and useful unit.

- Macharius tanks performed well, and felt right.

- Praetorians did OK, but I miss their 3+ save... They died faster than they used to. The AA option felt odd to both me and my opponent; It's "unexpected" AA. I'd just as soon lose the AA and get back the better armour.

- Skitarii in general did the job. Good, solid infantry. Too bad I can't roll combat resolution dice, but that's hardly the units fault.

- Plasma Ordinati did OK-ish at best. I'm not sure they did their 500-points pricetag worth of damage, though, and they are extremely vulnerable to CC. They need to be cheaper to be competitive (both internally and externally). The triple plasma core detonation was entertaining, at least.

Thanks for the report!

Poor Colossi.... they just can't seem to get a break but at least their overwatch killed a couple of stands. Although with this and the minorus it seems that both were pretty unsupported and open to attack.

Forge Knights are typically mediocre. No surprise there. They are great if you can get a charge off though

Good to hear about the crusaders. This seems to mirror my own experience although I'm still leaning toward AV for them. However if we do go with a robot rule then I think they will stay LV.

I'll be curious as to how the minorus perform in a few more games before I draw any conclusions. They did alright for themselves until they got pegged by the rough riders. Minorus are pretty weak in CC and they typically need some form of support.

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-Vaaish

I played agains StM in that game. The list was ok, and I have only a few comments.

Robots seemed to be fine. The AA was wierd but otherwise they were ok. I liked that they where not yet another terminator/dreadnought clone but had some distinct weaknesses and strenghts. Giving all of them a great save and MW would just be power creeping and dull. Remember that you are measuring one robot vs. five terminators with assorted weapons. A CC MW attack would be to much.

The knights were great and not at all to weak. The broke because I feared them and placed a lot of blast markes on them. The conclusion should not be: "well, if they did not get in position to give maximum effect, then they need to be beefed up". They are scary with infiltrate, good armour and CC MW. Dont make them better.

/Jacob

I played against StM in that game. The list was ok, and I have only a few comments.

Robots seemed to be fine. The AA was wierd but otherwise they were ok. I liked that they where not yet another terminator/dreadnought clone but had some distinct weaknesses and strenghts. Giving all of them a great save and MW would just be power creeping and dull. Remember that you are measuring one robot vs. five terminators with assorted weapons. A CC MW attack would be to much.

The knights were great and not at all to weak. They broke because I feared them and placed a lot of blast markes on them. The conclusion should not be: "well, if they did not get in position to give maximum effect, then they need to be beefed up". They are scary with infiltrate, good armour and CC MW. Dont make them better.

/Jacob