did you ever get this game in?

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-Vaaish

I actually did, just yesterday. Batrep with pics in progress.

Finally, two sundays!

Modified the list to try the Colossi robots as well:

Demi-Century Skitarii, Tech Lord, Chimedons [625, BTS]
Demi-Century Skitarii, Mole Mortars [425]
Ordinatus Minorus Century, 2x Quake Cannon, Corvus Landing Pad [550]
Forge Knight squadron [200]
Colossus Robots Maniple [250]
Crusader Robots Maniple [150]
Crusader Robots Maniple [150]
Havy Tank Cataphract, vanquisher [250]
Thunderbolt Squadron [150]
Thunderbolt Squadron [150]

And here's the battle report: http://sdahl.net/~sdahl/whepic/20120302/

It's my opponents first game of epic at 3K (he's played the intro scenarios, previously), so the win shouldn't be considered an indication of inherent list strength. In fact, I found it somewhat on the low end of the power scale.

Specific comments:

The Forge Knights and Colossi did nothing useful. They advanced, got shot, broke, and failed to rally. They are really very fragile, and frankly there are better ways of using 450 points in the list. I'd like to try a 6-strong formation of Forge Knights next, but the Colossi are not coming back in their current form. I still think they merit a 3+ save (like dreads) and Fearless (they are robots! They don't run away unless told to!)

The Crusaders served a useful purpose as scout screens, and in the end game were useful to make objective runs. They feel funky (6+ FF MW?) and even more fragile than colossi, but they definitely have a place in the list, even at 150 points. I still think they should be Fearless.

The Minori with 2x QC + CLP are an auto-include. There's nothing else in the list that can adequately reach out and touch the enemy deployment zone (no teleporters or air assaulters, after all). It would be nice if any other loadout was viable, but with a 10cm move, on an table with adequate terrain, they don't really warrant direct-fire weapons - it's just too easy to hide from them, then. I really recommend boosting the Minorus base speed to 15cm, so they can fill the same role as superheavy tank companies.

Mole Mortars were more a liability than an asset - no save, and they drag down the movement of the formation. A garrison formation wants to be on overwatch as much as possible, whereas the Mortars need to sustain to be useful. A poor fit; They would be more useful as a separate Support formation.

The heavy tanks performed well enough. Solid, good shooting, slow but not too slow. Characterful.

The Chimedons didn't really get a chance to do much, but the formation looked big and scary, and they provided some much needed maneuver capability, so they're definitely keepers.

Hope you find it useful!

Thanks for sharing!

Not too surprised with the results of the 3 strong forge knights. That happens every game I take the 3 strong option. The 6 strong is a bit better in that you can usually get an engagement in before they break and get wiped out. Seriously thinking of removing it entirely since we've now got quite a few sub 250 point options.

Just curious, but what dreads are you referencing? I pulled the stats for the colossus directly from the core marine lists' dreads which is why they have 4+ armor. If you get a chance, give the colossus a try with fearless. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be doing an inverse game from the last one and play against the skitarii.

Crusaders. I'm not sure they warrant fearless. Having scout AND fearless would make them really good at area denial. We'll see how they continue to do. I may revisit the FF value, but I wanted it to be clear that they were CC units if you get into an engagement. I also didn't want them to encroach the Sagitarii and Colossus for FF. They are still fulfilling their function as scout screens, but it does give them a few more teeth if someone tries to shift them in an engagement and a bit more utility against reinforced armor.

I agree with the minorus. However, would 15cm movement do anything to change this? It is a scary unit to face, true, but in my game against marines, they didn't really have that much of an impact and would have been pretty well wiped out had they lost their engagement. (fluke really since any 4+ dice roll is the bane of my friends existance. He went for 6 turns in BFG failing to roll a 4+) I think it might end up making minorii in infantry companies more useful which is where more direct fire weapon could show up.

Noted on mole mortars. I'll move them out of the upgrades. Perhaps we can see about mixing mole mortars and rapiers as upgrade options for sagitarii since both fall into the category of heavy weapons.

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-Vaaish

The Space Marine Dreadnought is Armour 3+, both in the 2010 and 2012 compendiums.


It's more for fluff reasons than for list needs, sure.


With Armour 6+ they're easy enough to get rid of, Fearless or not.


I think so; a direct-fire gunnery Minorus company would probably have at least some high-quality shooting (Plasma, Volcano cannon or similar) and would not mind doubling to get a clear shot.


This, too. A single WE in a Skitarii formation would provide cover and soak shooting with its shields, and with speed 15cm it would not slow down a footslogger demicentury. Definitely a viable upgrade.

meh... well in that case, we'll drop the colossus to 3+ to match. This may affect the possibility of them getting fearless.

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-Vaaish

2.02 TEST.B - Abusing the Minori

OK, next test list - I'll try to get as much from the Minori as I can.

Demi-century, Tech-Lord, 4x Praetorians, Ordinatus Minorus, Gatling Blaster [775, BTS]
Demi-century, 4x Praetorians [475]
Minorus Company, 2x QC, CLP [550]
Minorus Company, 3x Plasma Cannon [475]
Sagitarii Support Maniple, 4x Mole Mortar, 1x Rapier, 1x Transport Minorus [425]
Crusader Robots [150]
Crusader Robots [150]

Comments? I dropped my customary aircraft, since all core formations carry adequate intrinsic AA; Let's see if I'm going to miss them...

Yep, that's a stress test. It's also the type of Skittle army I've always been interested in collecting, too. Let us know how it goes.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

yep definitely interested here. I'm a little sad the colossus didn't make it in, but I think that right now they need far less testing than anything else.

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-Vaaish

Got the game with the above-mentioned list in, against Drop Salamanders:

http://sdahl.net/~sdahl/whepic/20120320/

It is not a particularly instructive battlereport (exactly what did we learn here? "Don't roll '1's for activations"?), but here's a few reflections anyway:

Plasma Ordinati were scary and effective, just as they should be.

Mobile Sagitarii were useful, the transport allowed them to get into position, and worked well as a damage soak too. A bit overpriced, though, I'd rather have had (say) another Demi-century skitarii.

Speed 15 minori makes them just enough tactically flexible to be fire support for skitarii, and to move into better positions while recharging (or in dire need); That I couldn't activate them is hardly their fault.

Upgraded Skitarii works very well. Very resilient, as they should be.

Interesting. Would you have found the Sagitarii to be more worth their points if they were a straight swap of plasma cannons for mole mortars giving them 2 per stand rather than 1? It would be trading the AT shot for disrupt and ignore cover as well as the option for indirect fire. I'm more curious than anything really and I'd need more data before boosting the mortars a bit.

How do you think the sagitarii are for their points with just the plasma cannons since they double their shots?

I'm also curious about secutors. No desire to take them either?

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-Vaaish

How about just getting the light artillery their own formation again? I know nobody used to take them, but if they can take a transport minorus to get into a useful position, they become a lot more attractive.


They'd be better as an engagement support unit, I suppose, but they'd usually double to get into position and then they lose half their firepower. I'd like to try them in that role, but don't have the models.

4 sagitarii with a transport minorus seems about equivalent to devastators in rhinos - slightly slower, slightly more fragile soldiers, much more durable transport, knows fear... I'd price them at 250pts, 300pts at most. I don't think they synergize well with a gun minorus.



Well, yes, I do actually, the extra Leaders would have been helpful. However, I don't think the beamer is appropriate for them - it makes them stay at the back of a formation for shooting (outside 30cm range), where they are supposed to be up front and ready to take the charge. Can't you give these guys plasma cannons instead? Or drop the heavy gun and give them Meltas (15cm MW5+ and Small Arms, MW) - that would be in character too.

At that point we might as well just leave them as an option for Sagitarii rather than have separate units or drop the plasma entirely. I'll do some more testing with the plasma sagitarii. Perhaps they can drop slightly in points or mortar ones can get a bit more firepower. either way I think the formation is getting close.


Meltas would be a distinct possibility but very little testing has been done with secutors at all.

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-Vaaish

Just want to reiterate again, that I would love for the mole mortars to be a separate unit, as opposed to paying extra for 3+ Firefight on a unit that should never be in LOS to enemy troops.

Next test list:

2.02 TEST.D

Skitarii Demi-Century, Tech-Lord, 2x Praetorians, 1x Secutors [575, BTS]
Skitarii Demi-Century, Chimedons [525]
Ordinatus Minorus, 2x AML, CLP [450]
Sagitarii Support Maniple, 4x Mole Mortars, 2x Rapier, Transport Minorus [450]
Castellan Robots Maniple [250]
Crusader Robots Maniple [150]
Crusader Robots Maniple [150]
Mechanicus Gothic Cruiser [150]
Thunderbolt Squadron [150]
Thunderbolt Squadron [150]

Thoughts? This is intended as heavy assault infantry that moves up and take objectives.