I just got my hands on 8 termite sets myself which puts me up to 12 termite sets. The next time I play this list I'm going to see if trying a tunneler unit helps me any.

They are most scary when you have a War Engine that finds itself in the middle of a whole bunch of termites coming out of the ground spewing forth bases or INF with Lance weapons. Ouch!

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Hi there, I just have some questions over the tunneller rules which I am having difficulty getting my head around.

1) The termites, moles and hellbore have 10cm moves. Does this mean that they can move after they have surfaced? eg - participate in an engage action and move into cc?

2) The planetfall rules state that the drop point is moved to the closest clear spot by your opponent if it falls within an enemy zoc. If the tunnellers cannot move after they have surfaced, then it seems to me that it would be impossible for them to engage any enemy in CC, unless that enemy chose to move into CC with the tunneller. Is this the case?

Morgan will supply the official answer but here is how I understand it:

1. Yes, the Hellbore (and probably others) have a 10cm move so you can use them in game if you so wish (otherwise they dissappear back underground). This makes the hellbore quite a nice support for the troops adding its size to the formation.

2. After you appear in the pods, the troops jump out and assault if you so wish. You would never want to engage soley with the termites as 2 enemy models would block the exits for the transported troops. Is this what you meant?

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Hi frogbear, thanks for the response. If the tunnellers can move after they surface then thats fine.

I was just concerned that the tunnellers had these nice CC attacks, but it seemed to me that they would almost never engage anyone in CC if they could not move after surfacing.

Hi guys,

Having played my long awaited second game with this list, I have a few comments. I faced my dreaded enemy, Speaker to Machines' Titan Legion

My list:
1 16 strong forgers guild, grand warlord, no upgrades
2 9 strong bikers guild, half trikes
1 9 strong mole mortars batt. w 1 thunderfire

1 Colussus w spotter
1 Cyclops
2x 4 Iron Eagles
2x 1 Overlord

We played a one day tourney, and my scouts had revealed that all enemy armies where tank heavy, hence my choices. One ork warlord brought 52 (!) gunwagonz + zapgunz + stompas and a great gargant. Total apocalype, yeeeargh!

As I arranged the tourney, I sat all games out as only 5 turned up, but I did play this first games.

StM's Titans:
2 Warlords - one standard, one w 2 quake cannons, spotter platform and death strike (the mvp)
3 Warhounds
1 Sentinels
2x Thunderbolts
1x Marauders

Turn 1 Atml won initiative and the mvp warlord almost levelled my colussus, leaving it 5 dc down and damaging one of the overlords as well. Both squat WE broke, but I found out later this was perhaps wrong, having forgot all about the Resolute rule. Due to my forgetfullness, both gyrocopter det. broke sooner rather than later and was destroyed by flyers. Turn 1 was pure disaster, but I managed to shoot down some void shields. The forger marched up the center (we played corner to corner on my opponents initiative. He admitted it was a mistake since his army was slower than mine ), my bikers moved within assault range of two warhounds. The broken overlord rallied, but the colussus stayed broken until turn 3 where it was destroyed.

Turn 2 and things turned around. Atml won initiative and didn't hold back the cerimonial barrage from their deployment zone (1050 pts is a lot to tie down on ones baseline, if you ask me). Having moved into range of my enemy, my stouty fellas proved quite lethal, killing one warhound, routing the two other (the both luckily saved enough hits) and damaging the advanding warlord (the smaller one).

The overlords proved worth every gold nucket my boys ever pulled out their mountains, threatening on long range and AA. DC 3 might be a bit much for 225 pts but given they only have 2 weapons, it doesn't seem overpowered. They played great. My opponent found them quite irritating. I deployed them on each flank with the mortar batt garrisoned in the centre, so I had an AA firebase covering most of the table.

The Cyclops broke the one warhound. We discussed the piercing shot rule, agreeing it would play better as MW2+, TKd6 as other TK weapons also has MW. AT2+ piercing just doesn't make good sense on a weapon of that size.

Turn 3 will follow later today

Looks like a reasonable mix, 9 Support Points, 8 spent. Just a few questions, no transport for the Forgers? And no interest in Thudd Guns? I've noticed a lot of people tend to prefer Mole Mortars exclusively. Why?


Yeesh! Yeah, the macro-artillery Titan tends to cause consternation amongst our group too. When I was helping to playtest for a tourney, I took a Reaver version of those as part of my AMTL force. Needless to say, it didn't go over well. Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Unless the IronHawk went down too, then yeah, neither should have broken. 6Barrage+5Damage = 7BM, and 6Barrage+1Damage = 3BM, both needing one more to break.


As you say, with 1/3 of the Army on the Blitz, and only 5 other ground Activations, yeah, keeping objectives seems difficult.


My main playtester (beside myself, obviously) loves the Overlords too. But I've never had an issue with playing against them. Their inability to hide is a huge hinderance, IMO. Even with Resolute, they're very easy to break. And anything with directed TK, like the ZzapGun Ork army you mentioned, should have the Dvergatal player screaming "Oh, the Humanity!" fairly often. The biggest complaint I've had with them, is the direct comparison to Baneblades, but I find that a hard sell given how much I think Baneblades are overcosted. I'll almost always field ShadowSwords, except in Companies, where I might add a Baneblade because well, three SS's seems a bit of overkill.


Ahh, you misinterpreted. I probably should have put in a specific note (will do for the next version). By being TK, the weapon is automatically considered MacroWeapon (Last sentence of 2.2.9). The Piercing Shot is only there for the +Critical effect, and the AT2+ is there so that the weapon can't be fired at Infantry. It's too big to be able to target anything even the size of Terminators.

Morgan Vening

A few comments from the other side of the gunsights

First, a few pics over here. Note that we had plenty of LOS-blocking terrain in the middle of the table.



I really feel I should get a moustache that I can twirl while I cackle like a maniac...


Yep, the best part of life. The lamentation of your enemies' women after you crush them, all that. Also, the lamentation of your enemies before you crush them, if they are little girls

The AMTL list does have exploitable weaknesses (in activations and movement), which the macro artillery mitigates but doesn't negate. But yes, it is a tough list to face unprepared.



There's a downside to having list-unique special rules; I had no idea what I was facing (I was still marveling that the pesky fortress didn't have particle shields and thus was nicely vulnerable to Deathstrikes) so I couldn't help either. I'm sure we'll both remember it once we've had a few more games with it.

It seems like a reasonable rule, though, very fitting of dwarfish stubbornness.



The 1050 point big cheese is a lot of points, yes, but it does rather effectively deny both BTS and Blitz. I haven't seen an opponent yet that could realistically threaten it.

As for taking objectives, yes, it is usually there the AMTL falters. The Warhounds really need to survive to do that in later turns, and I was a bit careless with mine (leaving them where the Cyclops could draw a bead on them was not a wise move).

The warhounds would have been even more dead if we had played the Cyclops Hellfury right; I seem to recall one that it took a hit on its one remaining shield, without us rolling D6. That thing is made for killing Titans, and should probably have topped my target priority list (as it was, I focused on the other fortress for the BTS goal).



It was very annoying indeed, since I play the Titans with lots of air support, to chase down stragglers after the big guns break them; the Overlords make an excellent AA umbrella.

Range 60cm AA seems a little odd for a mobile platform (for the ground thunderfire I think it's fine), but I suppose the list needs some AA, having no aircraft of its own. I found the 4+RA a bit odd too; It's a balloon, after all, those are supposed to be more fragile than Land Raiders.

In my humble opinion, they should be 5+RA, with 45cm AA fire, and cost only 175/300 points. It would also allow a few more of the cute little blimps hanging over the dwarf line, WWI-style. They do look very good, after all.



Hum. It's still weird, I think... It's the only AT/TK weapon I can think of, so I suspect others will misinterpret it too. I can see what the gun is trying to be (and my Titans really really hate it!), but it does need a bit more explanation, I think.

On the 10cm movement - it didn't come up much, since the only infantry formation was happy enough to just sit and remove shields from my Titans. There were no engagements at all in the battle, it was a straight up gunfight.

Next time I should perhaps try my Biel-Tan Eldar; It would be interesting to see what a hyper-mobile army can do to the bearded ones

The macro combo was anticipated and I understand the deathstrike in the remaining slot. You just have to calculate losing at least half a detachment every turn and push on. I still think the deathstrike in every incarnation is massively underpriced and doesn't really bring any tactical flair into the game. Despite from turn 1 whining was kept to a minimum and with better dice rolls and not making those minor mistakes, the game could easily have tipped - next time I tell you

Gambling with the warhounds was bold but necessary. The bikers had torn the one hound apart had he not been backed by his buddy and gaining initiative in turn 2 bought one of them enough time to break the other bikers guild. I would rather have used the cyclops on the forward warlord

The overlords makes up for the lack of battle tanks and sht. The always popped up rule makes them vulnerable but also makes the skies their domain so the good AA sort of makes sense (also for the reasons you mentioned Stephan). They also give a different flair than your ordinary baneblade although you could always argue the 60 cm range. Alternatively I would bring a landtrain w tf carriage...

I thought long on bringing land trains instead of mobile fortresses, mainly because of BTS. But the cyclops is hard to replace and the colussus pack a lot of firepower, so...

In regards of mole mortars vs. Thudds, my mortars are painted, the thudds only primed also usually we play with lots of ruins and buildings so the ignore cover makes good sense

Damn smart phones are not build for commenting on fora ...

Edit
Some additional comments:

I didn't bring 2 SP's as I think it provides the dvergs with an advantage I can't see any reason for. On the other hand it is a disadvantage that the DC4+ WE have 2+ initiative. It would play more easily to do away with the extra SP and give land trains and mobile fortresses initiative equal to their counterparts (titans etc.). I understand the reasoning behind these choices, Morgan, but like the AT2+ piercing it would be more in line with the other lists and not raise questions and confusion during the game.

@Stephan:
To round off the whole whining business, you know people will always whine about macro barrages. I had to console many a young man when I played the Demiurd list, and I can fully understand if you felt the whining unjustified last Saturday (i'm not referring to our game thou ). I thoroughly enjoyed our game and have learned a lot about this list and would enjoy a game against Eldars (how do they play again? ). Just not expect me to bring the same list ... hmm how about those 16 strong artis w lances popping out of termites

which Dvertagal list did you use.. i have 1.01 in my folders... also,, why no particle shielding or void fields on the super heavies?

Minervan Leman Russ Tank Destroyer is AT4+, TK(1) for reference.

SOunds like a fun game; I've always prefered these over the 'official' Squat lists.

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NAGROM ... NAGROM ... NAGROM ...

It's still available here. Though it's been largely abandoned for the now.

Morgan Vening