True, and being a new player to EA (but not to SM/TL) i can't draw on dozens of games/tournaments to draw further conclusions on.

I guess that it also 'feels' wrong to see a Reaver Titan 'commonly' fitted with 2 Quake Cannon's and a CLP. In the old days of SM/TL there were more variety to the weapon fits that were on Reavers. Now it seems as if a Reavers are more commonly fitted this way - it goes against the fluff (what little there is i admit) to see these fast and ancient machines to be commonly fielded as stationary arty pieces...

To me, and to the fluff, a Reaver is a warmachine that provides fire support, both medium and long range, where its speed can carry itself into and out of trouble - compared to the slower but better armed and armoured Warlords.

It's not a killer response i know, however years of playing Epic in all its forms, even early AM days, something just doesnt feel right with this outfit being more common than other outfits...

Tee

And this is the problem, the config ISN'T that common. It's not a default for every list. I'd say it's far more common to see TLD or LB with a reaver than it is to see quakes on one.

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-Vaaish

That's not my impression.

However, it's clear that most don't feel that artillery Titans are breaking the War Gryphonnes list, so they'll be sticking around.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I remember there was a discussion on the pricing of TLD because of the fear they were the default choice in lists at the expense of other weapons. Did this turn out to be unfounded? Regardless, the point is that the quake+CLP reaver aren't showing up all the time or even a majority of the time and while the CLP factors into most artillery titans, it's not limited to just the quake combo.

I think the problem lies more with other options like the support missile being less attractive due to the one shot nature than anything to do with the CLP.

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-Vaaish

Not quite; TLD's were (And are) the best 25pt weapon. Quake Cannons aren't 25pt weapons.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

well, yes, they aren't the same price, that wasn't what I was implying I was pointing out that in the scope of the entire list, the quake +CLP is fairly uncommon while other builds tend to get more board time.

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-Vaaish

This is (admittedly) a niche concern, but I'm converting a Warmonger and pondering putting a Lysander on it. Unfortunately, this 75 point single-figure add-on would consume one of two support choices in the 3k "double eagle" (two Emperor-class titans) list I'm putting together.

Would it perhaps be appropriate to move the Lysander under the upgrades list, either on the titan entry itself, or under the available titan upgrades list (along with Legate, Carapace Multi-lasers, etc)? In putting together a couple of other forces in progress, I see precious few other support choices that small in models/damage capacity and that low in points.

I'm not convinced that a "double eagle" list should be considered a sensible or competetive list style at 3k points.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I would agree with this sentiment. The imperator class titans really aren't ready for prime time IMO.

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-Vaaish

Agreed. I don't think a 3k list with one Emperor class Titan is going to be competitive, never mind two.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Having played against a double-emperor list, it's terrible.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

@zombocom and others with thoughts on the list: is it terribly over-powered, terribly underpowered, or either/both depending on the mission? @Spectrar Ghost was kind enough to offer an analysis of the list I had in mind in a thread for the Adepticon tourney (link here) in the context of the different missions available in E:A, so perhaps some of these (or similar) underlie your comments?

In the alternative, are there structural problems with the unit (costing or weapons power) that ought to be addressed... or is it more balanced at certain (perhaps much higher points-level) games? I've no wish to build a WAAC ("win at any costs") list, but simply thought it would be an interesting novelty to field two of these and not much else. I haven't yet seen an AMTL list draft with a 0-1 Emperor-class limit, nor have I seen any "1 Emperor Class Titan per x (e.g. 2000) points". Likewise, they don't seem to appear as allies on the Ministorum and Inquisition lists, which (as I recall) is where they were assigned in some of the fluff (though I do recall the Dark Mechanicus Emperor-class titan in Abnett's Titanicus, and Lexicanum yields a few mentions of loyalist Emperor-class titans, including a picture of a painted example from Legio Metalica that appeared on the "Titan Legions" box and in White Dwarf).

Back to my original point, is there a rationale surrounding putting the Lysander as a support choice rather than a unit upgrade? The Warmonger seems to have a pretty unique list structure to have an unlocked-by-unit add-on consume the very support choice it grants (though I'll admit to only looking at three or four lists from the 2012 document and a few of the other AMTL lists floating around the board). Is this intended to counter-balance a too-powerful unit?

The main rationale fir the Lysander taking a support slot is simple: upgrades are added to the parent formation. You can't have aircraft and ground units in the same formation, of course; the rules simply aren't designed to allow it. And in ATML aircraft formations take support slots.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

TBH, I don't know why anyone would take a lysander. It basically fills the roll of the Thunderbolt, but with both Emperor titans you certainly aren't lacking for AA so there's not a whole lot of need for that either. With 500 points you might as well just take two sentinels and a warhound to boost activations. After that it's a matter of getting the emperors into position to claim or contest objectives and paste anything that comes nearby. Either use the sentinels as a screen or trundle around for enemy objective contesting and keep the warhound alive to go for blitz or contest TSNP. Gives you 25 points for a vet princeps or giving the warhound a TLD or other weapon.

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-Vaaish