My take on traitor guard, but trying for a cult that has infiltrated the PDF of an Agri-World rather than a tithed Guard Regiment that has turned traitor.

What it is: A chaos cult managed to stay undetected on the Agri-World Bellis XIV. After having infiltrated the PDF and other vital institutions they rose up and overthrew the rightful Imperial Governor in a bloody revolt. Tired of living under the Emperor's oppressive rule, they are now defending their world while waiting for deliverance in the form of True Space Marines or other servants of the Four Free Powers. The cult has several sorcerers, so while they have not been able to construct true Daemon Engines like Plague Towers or Hellcannons, they have managed to bind Daemons into various vehicles, from the lowly Siegfried all the way up to superheavy tanks and giant agricultural vehicles. They will also be able to summon Daemons as a nasty surprise for the loyalists who come to retake the planet.

It will all most likely end in Exterminatus, but that doesn't mean we can't get some games out of the story first!

Design Notes.

Units: A mix of Siegemaster units, some Mossinian units and Lost and the Damned units. No fortifications, I'm not trying to make a siege army. Might change that last part.

An Initiative 3+ army: It says 4+ on the army list, but with Factions it is effectively 3+. Unlike Orks, they do not get to be an 1+ army with limited actions, but are rather a true 3+ army - something that doesn't exist at this point I think? It represents the poor training and discipline of a PDF force further undermined by having their command structure overturned and replaced with chaos cultists, not the most organized chaps around. 3+ init will probably be frustrating and underpowering to play, but I've tried to compensate in three ways:
- Core formations are actually 25 points more expensive than counterparts from 2+ armies (LatD, Baran Siegemasters), but can choose up to 3 upgrades, all of which are bought at a discount of 25 points each.
- Support formations recieve a straight 25 point discount, with the exception of Flak Batteries and Artillery Batteries, as I felt they're cheap enough in the Siegemaster list.
- The Fanatical Fervour rule, as I think a failed action test is most disastrous when attempting an engage (plus, chaos cultists charging easily seems fluffy enough)

Low tech Imperial hardware with Daemon support: I imagine that a PDF doesn't have access to the cool stuff that proper tithed Guard regiments do, so I've avoided most of the IG vehicles, opting instead for weapon platforms and the simple tanks and transports of the Siegemasters. I think the LatD Land Transporter fits well in with this, even though I'd prefer it to be armed with a heavy stubber rather than "heavy weapons". I think of it as a Siegfried with room for troops in stead of guns and comm gear. Hellhounds stick out a bit, but I just think Possessed Hellhounds are so right.
I think taking Imperial Vehicles and making them Daemon Engines with a character upgrade is a fun idea, so that's what I went with. They've got Warp Blast for a weapon, that might be too Tyranid-sounding. What's a good Chaos name? The Possessed Harvester rules are really off the cuff, it will probably change a lot. Hopefully the concept won't - it's a freaking huge, but theoretically unarmoured, civillian vehicle possessed by a daemon (or several daemons maybe?). I call it a Harvester, but it might as well be a mining drill on a mining world or whatever else that is big and mechanical.

edit: Updated to v0.1.1 - no real change, but added Arch-Heretic and stats for the Mossinian units (Stormhammer, Mortar, PDF Fighters and PDF Bombers).

Captin, we have convergence on the Lost and Damned!

seriously, this is almost the same as the draft ideas for the cultist guard I sent to tiny-tim, from possessed vehicles, land transporter getting heavy stubber, a plethora of light tanks (mine were all based off the land transporter chassis and fielded a griffon mortar, a stub cannon (45cm AP5+/AT5+) and half of a hydra autocannon.
I was also considering howitzer and an incinerator (light hell hound) variants but wanted to keep the unit list down.

I also went for mass engage list, but through restricting artillery and range weaponry, not a direct activation bonus.

SHTs i left for the traitor gaurd, but gave them the option for demon war engines, which the possessed stormhammer and harvester represent nicely. (Incidentally, you will ALWAYS see people take possessed SHT over regular because fearless is cucial for a lone tank)

You'll have trouble summoning a greater demon without a chaos alter, and what stas do the pdf aircraft have?

incidentally - do you have a template for list design? if so, could I pretty pretty please have a copy?

Great minds think alike



Is your list init 2+ or 3+? The activation bonus is there mostly because I think init 3+ across the board will suck, but especially when you try to engage. If you try to move or shoot you can at least to a little of that with a Hold action.

I'm also thinking of adding +1 to rally to Fanatical Fervour, but I want to try it without first.



Mostly, yes, but the cost of the possession is a bit steep? 175 vs 275. Sometimes you'd want the cheap activation which still has 4+RA. Wouldn't really mind if it was always possessed, it's what the list is about after all.



I have never actually played Chaos (something I'm hoping to change if I develop this list - depends on if anybody else likes it and, yes, what other people like you are doing!). So I haven't seen the Summoning rules in play, but wouldn't a formation with a Demagogue get to roll 4D3 for summoning points? That's a Greater Daemon on average. Now, reliable it ain't, but not impossible.



I made the list in Open Office calc, I'll pm you the file (both in odf and xls).

edit: Orrrr not. No attachments in PMs? I didn't know that. I can mail it to you if you send me an address?

Interesting list - first thoughts I would be more inclined to use standard IG vehicles and upgrades. Further the allowance of the two support formations to one core is probably too much for a force with limited resources. This would also allow the +25/-25pts changes to be made.

Possessed Harvester is interesting and that is all I'll say on it.

Any chance you can change the thread title to include [FANLIST] at the front. I want to look at the cultist side of the LatD before returning to the pdf/traitor IG, but you guys are giving me lots to go on.

But tim, this list has angry farmers on tractors!

TRAAAAACTOOORS!

it also kinda makes sense to me. If the generic traitor gaurd list is based off Steel legion, then this would be traitor pdf based off the Baran force. Symmetry of evil.


Ulrik, what initative is the Seige masters list? (bearing in mind they have commisars). What initive is the current Latd list (remembering the faction hatred rule - if you're outside of hated range, you get a +1 to initiative).
I'd just adopt that, an engage option seems to Khorne specific for a generic force.

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My shifting projects

The question that has to be asked is what type of equipment will be left/supplied to a pdf force. I have the impression that Baran/Krieg are more specialist (needs must) constructions.

And I'm not saying that an angry tractor might not work, just interesting. I even spent some time thinking about how I would use one, objective placement/supporting forces/deployment. I even thought that it might be funny not to allow it to turn & if you had a second one it has to follow to the side of the first. Then I remembered my dwarf bloodbowl team

I actually meant the land crawler's as tractors. Ill supplied traitors using the pdf's fixed emplacement weapons and mobilising as best they can.

As from my childhood memories, a spinning tractor with a heavy plough on the back would be quite devastating, never mind if you have a tree shredder:
http://www.lotscapes.com/videos.html

They also can normally turn on a dime.


and for ulrik: madd0ct0r@yahoo.co.uk

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My shifting projects

Was more thinking of this for the possessed harvester

Hokay, several points to cover!

First, the vehicles. It's not only the Baran list, but also the Mossinian list (from the Siege supplement that featured Death Korps) that implies that PDF forces use different, less advanced equipment than regiments raised for off-world duty like the Steel Legion or Death Korps (I call them "tithed regiments", dunno if there is a better word for it). It makes sense that PDF regiments don't get as many resources. After all, a PDF force will probably not be called on to fight, and if they do they will get reinforced sooner or later. A tithed regiment will fight, and will often be those reinforcements. So the big boys get the lascannons, autocannons, chimeras and russ tanks while the pdf make do with converted tractors (siegfried!) and heavy stubbers.

Might be necessary to nail down just what kind of equipment a PDF force uses.

For Core-Support ratio, I picked the Baran 1-2 ratio but I'm not opposed to changing it to the LatD 1-1 ratio. You think that's necessary for the list to have that cheap support? The core formations are also cheaper than similar formations, IF they purchase at least two upgrades.

For initiative, both Baran and LatD are effectivly 2+. I would like to see at least one army out there be 3+, everybody else is 2+ or 1+ (yes, even orks). A non-bloodied PDF force taken over by an even less disciplined Chaos cult screams 3+ init to me. If nobody else likes the concept it can be dumped, but I'd like to test it in some games. Note that "Fanatical Fervour" is a part of this - if the list moves to 2+ I'll dump it. It's there mostly because I think failing an Engage test is worse than failing most other action tests. I also feel it's appropriate - the force is undisciplined, but aggressive and not especially cowardly. Concepts like "march quickly to this point on the map" or "concentrated fire there, now!" can be hard to perform flawlessly, while I imagine the fanatics having no problem obeying the "assault! urraaah!" order. Assaults aren't just close combat, it will mostly be lasgun fire actually. And tractors.

The Harvester: Love that pic, Tim Bloody scary is what it is! The rules for the harvester is literally something I threw in there in five minutes while formatting the list for pdf. The concept is more important than the actual rules, so they will likely change. If the concept is interesting enough to actually make the list, that is! For the final rules I'd want something generic, something that can be used for any large industrial vehicle the player wants to convert to his force. Like a mining drill or a giant dump truck.

On Fan List: Made the change. I'm not a "fan" (hah) of the label, as I'm not intending for this list to have any life outside the NetEA project. I'll do whatever is required of me to fit it in there, up to and including dumping it in favor of some other list (say maddoctor's) using the best ideas from it. If any of the concepts are interesting I can do some preliminary testing while Tim sorts out the cultist list. What I regard as the "core concepts" of the list, stuff that I would look to test:

- Daemonic Possession as a character upgrade
- PDF units, not regular IG units
- 3+ initiative

Thanks Ulrik - The fanlist side is so that I can make the destinction between lists that I am reading and commenting on and lists that are receiving more of my attention

No problem with labelling my list so it's not as distracting!

The only list I intend to push myself is the Stygians, and even then I won't be able to push it further then the development phase (can't playtest, except against myself, and that's just sad).

The stuff I sent to Tim was all of the extra ideas that fitted better elsewhere, nothing approaching a chorent list (or three) at all.

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My shifting projects

Damnit, that means I can't push the responsibility over on you!

I won't push hard to develop this list just yet. I'll play some games with it, but I'll wait until Tim is ready to tackle traitor guard to do any major work.