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Titan Legions- Split from New ATML AC

 Post subject: Titan Legions- Split from New ATML AC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Congrats! Looking forward to seeing the Skitarii move into the limelight!

Vaaish wrote:
Hey everyone,
However, one sticking point is the God Machines rule. Right now it's to weak to make a difference and really doesn't have a place. I'd like to see this read:

"If any Scout or Battle Titan formation is destroyed, then any friendly formations within line of sight receive one blast marker."

While I agree that the current God Machines rule is too weak, I think this may be going a bit too far; I don't really see a Warlord or Reaver being rattled by the loss of a Warhound.

My personal preference would be to limit the God Machines to Battle Titans and Majoris. Alternatively, limit the blast marker effect to formations that contains units the same size or smaller than the destroyed War Engine.

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... without killing everyone's collections. :)


Yes, please!


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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Quote:
While I agree that the current God Machines rule is too weak, I think this may be going a bit too far; I don't really see a Warlord or Reaver being rattled by the loss of a Warhound.

Give it a go in a few games, I think you'll find that it works pretty well. Limiting things to just battle titans is part of the problem since it makes it far less likely to come into play and effectively makes the list play the same as if the rule weren't there at all. Putting it on warhounds should help to make AMTL players a bit more cautious on how they run their scout titans.

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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:32 am 
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Good onya Aaron!

Vaaish wrote:
However, one sticking point is the God Machines rule. Right now it's to weak to make a difference and really doesn't have a place. I'd like to see this read:

"If any Scout or Battle Titan formation is destroyed, then any friendly formations within line of sight receive one blast marker."

I like this idea and reckon it is a good one. Why is it restricted to line of sight though?

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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:22 am 
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Rug wrote:
There is presedence for limiting it to LoS, it's the same as the Avatar critical mechanic.


As a balancing mechanic it might be too easy to avoid if limited to LoS. I would have thought that all Titans on the same battlefield would be in vox contact with each other?


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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:36 am 
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I'd be concerned that in bigger games, the AMTL would get exponentially weaker as it would be easy to break every Reaver in the whole army by killing 6 Warhound Titans (pretty easy to do in a big game).

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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:49 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
I'd be concerned that in bigger games, the AMTL would get exponentially weaker as it would be easy to break every Reaver in the whole army by killing 6 Warhound Titans (pretty easy to do in a big game).


Wouldn't that fall under "not balanced above 5000 points"?


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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:54 am 
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6 Warhounds is only 1500-1600pts. You might well have that many, or more, Warhounds in a 4k-5k game.

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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:58 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
6 Warhounds is only 1500-1600pts. You might well have that many, or more, Warhounds in a 4k-5k game.


But is killing them all in one turn easy (or even realistic) even in a 5k game.

And wouldn't the AMTL player be in deep shit anyway if it happened?


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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:01 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
6 Warhounds is only 1500-1600pts. You might well have that many, or more, Warhounds in a 4k-5k game.


But is killing them all in one turn easy (or even realistic) even in a 5k game.

I don't know, but you could kill 3 and break every single Warhound Titan on the table.

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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:03 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
I don't know, but you could kill 3 and break every single Warhound Titan on the table.


That's a bigger concern. As it's 1BM per destroyed formation it could kill warhound singletons completely.


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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Quote:
I like this idea and reckon it is a good one. Why is it restricted to line of sight though?

Quote:
As a balancing mechanic it might be too easy to avoid if limited to LoS.

As Rug mentioned, it's based on the Avatar rule. I think limiting it to LOS makes it a bit more tactical and keeps the AMTL player from being hamstrung by giving you a way to avoid the penalty if you are a clever player.

Quote:
I'd be concerned that in bigger games, the AMTL would get exponentially weaker as it would be easy to break every Reaver in the whole army by killing 6 Warhound Titans (pretty easy to do in a big game).


I see your point Ben, however I think there are a few options AMTL can use to mitigate the BMs in larger games. First is to focus more on taking larger titans. If you do want warhounds, take warhound pairs since it would be harder to take the formation down. Also try to plan where your warhounds attack more carefully and if you know it's likely they'll go down try to keep them out of LOS or engage with a limited number. There should be enough terrain and warhounds are small enough to hide in some decent hills or behind some buildings. Since you can't always plan things out perfectly and you'll probably get some BM from the rule, you can always marshal larger titans or other formations that are close to breaking.

None of these options are without consequence but I don't see larger titans being easily broken since you'd still need to kill 6 formations of titans in a single turn to break every reaver on the table. That means you need to kill either 6 warhound singles or 12 warhounds if thy are running packs and with a little thought, an amtl player should be able to prevent that. However, I'm asking that people give the change a go in their next few games and see how it goes before I make the change in the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:57 pm 
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I don't know, but you could kill 3 and break every single Warhound Titan on the table.


You would break ever warhound single on the table if you lost three warhounds in a single turn. You'd need to kill 6 titans to break a warhound pack though. The idea is that Warhound singles will still be useful, but people taking only singles will have to be far more cautious or take more packs.

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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
I'd like to do a quick overview of where things are and where I'd like to see the lists go. First is the main Titan list. This list is pretty solid and I don't see many changes happening unless some glaring imbalance is found and needs to be dealt with. However, one sticking point is the God Machines rule. Right now it's to weak to make a difference and really doesn't have a place. I'd like to see this read:

"If any Scout or Battle Titan formation is destroyed, then any friendly formations within line of sight receive one blast marker."


I'm not too crazy about the God Machine rule to begin with and I like it even less if Warhounds are included.

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 Post subject: Re: New ATML AC
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Quote:
I'm not too crazy about the God Machine rule to begin with and I like it even less if Warhounds are included.

I tried running through all the old threads to see what your reasoning was for this but I can't find the discussion. Would you refresh my memory and explain what you reasoning was for disliking the rule and any results you've had from playing using it?

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