I'm not all for dropping the armor, so if a compromise of leaving the armor at 6+ is needed to bring this to a close let us do it. However, I agree with Zombocom in that it is better to err on the side of caution (and give the armor back if it proves too weak) instead of 6+ armor (and taking it away if it proves too powerful).

Start weak.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I too would like to keep the armor, but if it will bring this to a close let's drop it. If it's a problem we can bring it back.

Armour --
Wingtip Lascannons: 30cm AT5+/AA5+
Long-Barrel Autocannon: 45cm AP5+/AT6+/AA5+

Armour to be brought up for review after playtesting.
The three of us who have lists which include the Lightning are all in agreement, surely that should count for something, right? (Although I guess that's balanced out by Rug being on the other side )

I think if the three of use are in agreement then that's good enough.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

The Army Champ really should explicitly state his position now that we've got something pinned down. If Rug rubber stamps it (even with reservations) we can all make the changes, close the thread, and move on.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

How exactly is this Rug's call? Lightnings are Imperial Navy, not Imperial Guard, and could potentially be in Space Marine, Inquisition or other imperial lists.

Surely Steve54, as the Human champ is the nearest we have to the person who needs to agree?

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Maybe. That is something that is being discussed by the ERC right now: the idea over who is the Champ presiding over Imperial Navy. I'm fine with Steve54 making the call. Heck, I'm fine with either of them. I just think we need to do things the right way and not say, "Yeah, we three agree so it doesn't matter who else chimes in."

I'll poke the rest of the ERC to see if we can get a decision sooner than later.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Personally I think a gentlemen's agreement is a wonderful way to solve issues. The three list champions who actually have the unit in our lists have agreed on the stats, isn't that good enough? If someone else were to step in and override us, despite not actually having the plane in their list, then isn't that pretty screwed up?

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

I agree that would be screwed up. And I doubt anyone would do that. But if we're going to become more official and structured, somebody really should be Championing the Imperial Navy. Not necessarily a whole position set up for this purpose, but somebody acting in an AC fashion.

We did a great job on this - it took too long but at least its done. Now let's try to keep things consistent with the rest of the forum. If this were a unit on three Eldar lists, you would bet Chroma would have his eyeball on this thread and would be guiding its implementation or fighting the change (depending on what it was). We don't have anyone to do that with Imperial Navy but we should.

Even if the NetERC disagrees with me and says we can do whatever we want, then at least we went about it the right way and included the leadership.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Taking the Eldar example further, I think the AC should totally have a say, but if all the relevant list developers agree, and the AC doesn't, even if it's not in list they directly control, the AC shouldn't impose their will on the sub-champs.

If the sub-champs can't agree, then the AC should step in, or if the AC intends to use the unit in their own list, but otherwise it should be up to the list developers.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

There is no such person for Imperial Navy, however. So an AC can't take a backseat approach as you described (not a bad thing, just an observation) because no such ownership exists. It would be nice just to get a one line post from some AC type person saying, "Let's go with this."

I don't want to make an act of Congress / Parliament out of every decision. It's just the Imperial Navy needs to ironed out and this is as good a reason as any to finally make a decision on them.

The hard part is over so by all means, change your lists as you see fit. I am going to hold off on the Elysians until we get this ironed out.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

But as you say, there is no Imperial Navy AC, so there is noone who can approve. All list developers using the unit have agreed, to me that's enough.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

AC or no AC aside and one more time back to the armour save.

I would prefere to start with Save 6+ because i can't imagine someone saying after playtesting "Oh boy a 6+ save really would have saved my Lightnings".

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We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Then how important is it really?

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Democracy at work, Rug!

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.