in all seriousness, and clearly without any sort of bias at all, i really feel that my Bloody Hand list represents the traitor guard spectrum quite well enough already. it still needs some tweaking, the daemonic side of things is still a little rough, but overall it seems to work quite well for its purpose. its got a minor revision that will arrive with the army book, and i have a few other things i'm continuing to test. for the most part the vraks list seems to lack any particular chaosness to me (excepting of course, its chaos allies)

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

between the two they cover the traitor gaurd end then?

no point reinventing the wheel.

It might be worth doing a seperate cult/demonworld list for each god then.
the legions get them, so the cultists probably deserve the same.

also, at 3000pts, once you've collected the basic formations and the god specific war engines, you're pretty much full up already.
Maybe get two gods in a game list, at a push three, but it'd be hard to produce something coherent strategically.

I think you would cut the various guard vehicles (chimeras, russes, etc) from the LatD list if it's no longer a traitor guard list?

i gather that is the intent
that the current LATD list is too bloated with stuff because its trying to be traitor guard + rabble + daemonworld incursion all at once
so it seems that the plan is to trim out the options and split it into a few parts. i imagine that the guard tech will not be available to the rabble and/or daemonworld stuff to any great extent (though i could see a "lots of rabble with a few traitor guard elements" as one list, and a "daemonworld craziness" list being a good split (while leaving properly traitor-guard aligned lists to those of us working on them already XD)

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~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

I think that you guys have the right idea. When I start on this properly, in the new year, I will have a look at the existing list that are out there and then we can look to bring everything together.

+1 the Vraksian List is personally the traitor guard list I'm most interested in. I used a Vraksian tank company style list (with no infantry if I recall correctly) at the Winter Warmer tournament before last and it plays very different with the Malcador, Valdor and Minotaur tanks 15cm movement allowing garrison but keeping it slow. It could do with more playtesting, but I reckon the list is in a very good state as is personally.

Would cultists and traitor guard work as one list or should they be split?

IMO there is ample room for a chaos cultist+daemon engine list, a chaos cultist-traitor guard (both created from splitting the bloated LatD), the Vraks list and the Bloody hand to all coexist and have their own niches

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

I'm of the opinion that the list in its current form is too bloated with several units mirroring each other. Whilst several options are just not used.

They do at the moment, but the list is bloated in the number of units and there's kind of a cross-over between those two terms. The suggestion seems to be that the more extremely corrupted, tainted and mutated forces (long term worshippers, a force from a world in the eye of terror, ect) separate from the more newly renegade ones with most IG kit. If the LaTD list had only 1-2 powers worth of units it would be ok with both cultist and IG units IMO, but with all 4 plus IG it's OTT currently.


Good, I agree.

Just a tiny piece of advice. Do not split the Chaos factions, please give us players some freedom in making that choice ourselves.

I can agree that the current list is bloated, but do not make it bland.

/Fredmans

Don't worry there will still be the main option to take different factions. We may look at variant lists of single factions but first I will want the general list sorting out.

Gotta agree with the majority, a split of traitor guard vs cultist/daemon engines seems the right route to take.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Hi

What is the point of these 4 lists? And to be clear I don't mean that in a confontational sense but to find out what would be the lists "raison d'etre", i.e. their distinctive features, what makes them special, what are the aims of each list.

Having one bloated list would be wrong, but so would the other extreme of having a myriad of different lists, all with many similarities and only few differences. That would lead loss of focus on playtesting and loss of impetus in development.

Do we have a clear idea of what each of these 4 lists will do?

Cheers

James

The idea for epic was always to have main lists and lots of varients so that people can have lots and lots of armies (last bit added by myself). It will allow people to choose an army and style to their liking.