Tactical Command | View topic - Not Speed Painting

Page 9 of 14

[ 200 posts ]

Go to page Previous 1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 14 Next

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts

Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:47 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

Thanks for the advice kr00za. I am also a big conversion fan:

The Iblis

I had a good idea of what I wanted this thing to look like, but I got the proportions wrong. Still, not a complete failure as I have learnt something for the next version, which I will work on as soon as I can.

I dont throw anything away, and I have a large bitz box full of interesting stuff.

The thing that holds me back is the time it takes to cut and file plasticard. I guess I need a desk sander!

_________________
https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

Top

kr00za

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:04 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:06 pm
Posts: 944
Location: UK

Not sure what proportions u got wrong but that ship looks cool. I realy love that huge skeleton on the prowl.
I saw ur showcase ships some time ago and was very impressed.
I actualy have plans to make the prowl of my cruisers ?like that. Hope you dont mind

I think it would suit my fleets style well.
Thanx for the inspiration

_________________
Nuf Said.

Da Gargant Ownerz Klub and Avatarz by KroozA

Top

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:20 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

Sorry, I got the proportions of the Epic Hunter wrong. The Iblis I am happy with.

Cool, imitation is the best form of flattery. Of course, we will expect many pictures, but you know that by now. :;):

Top

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:38 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

Wednesday 7th January 2004
Not a lot to report today, but an important progress for me. I finally put together my Hunter - and I am almost pleased with it! Of course, it has taken so long to get right that the official mini will be around in three weeks anyway!

Next, to tidy up the Heavy Bolter Razorbacks...

Top

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:50 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

Friday 9th January 2004

Well, the Heavy Bolter Razorbacks are done. I just tidied up what I had done previously. I am not 100% happy with them, but they will do for now. I have spent so long just staring at them and evaluating them that I would never be happy. Next are the Land Speeders.

On another note, I am thinking about the rest of the force (I always enjoyed the planning part most!). I want three 1000 point blocks to add to the basic 2000 point force.

The three blocks that I had in mind are along the lines of:

-Terminators + Land Raiders, Bikes
-Assault formation, Thunderhawk, Whirlwinds
-Titan (either two Warhounds or a single Reaver), Devastators

There may be some reorganisation but these are the general units that I want to add. Do these additions seem OK?

My current 2000 point block stands at:

Tactical + 6 Razorbacks + Commander (550)
Tactical + Hunter (375)
Tactical (300)
Assault + Chaplain (225)
Predators (300)
Land Speeders + Librarian (250)

The next block would be the first one with the Terminators. So, two questions:

Are the Land Raiders really worth the huge points sink? The Terminators with their transports is most of the 1000 points (good from a painting point of view). If I do take them, I will have them as transports in some games, and as a seperate formation in others to allow the Terminators to teleport.

What should I add to the Terminators to bring the value as close to 1000 points as possible without going over? I am thinking of not bothering with the Land Raiders (but I really like the idea of adding a character to the Terminators!), and instead getting another Tactical formation. I want as many Marines as I can possible get in this force.

What do you think?

Top

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:25 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

Argh! My fourth post in a row! What does that say about me?

Anyway, I have been thinking about the rest of the Dark Talon Marine force. Here are my thoughts:

Tactical (300), 4 Las Cannon Razorbacks (100), 2 Heavy Bolter Razorbacks (50), Supreme Commander (100) - 550

Tactical (300), Hunter (75) - 375

Tactical (300) - 300

Assault (175), Chaplain (50) - 225

Land Speeder (200), Librarian (50) - 250

Predators (2 Annhilators, 2 Destructors) (300) - 300

Total: 2000

This is the basic core of the force, and will be taken for almost every battle. This is the bit that I am working on (extremely slowly) right now.

Assault (175) - 175

Terminator (325), Librarian (50) - 375

Thunderhawk (200) - 200

Devastator (250) - 250

Total: 1000

This is the block that I have always had in mind of adding to the force. It comprises the main theme of the army, a serious strike force. Both the Assault formations can go in the Thunderhawk and ruin someones day, with the Terminators either joining them, or teleporting with them, or teleporting elsewhere in a combined attack.

The Devastators are really there because I feel that I should have at least one formation of these guys, and they fit here.

Warhound x2 (250 x 2) - 500

Tactical (300) - 300

Bike (200) - 200

Total: 1000

This block supplies the Titan power. I have gone for two Warhounds over a single Reaver after an agonising decision process. The Reaver has the extra range, but the Warhounds are a little cheaper and actually have better armour. The two options have the same damage and shields. The deciding factor was when I saw that the Warhounds can 'half fire' their Macro and avoid the 'slow fire' penalty. Besides, while I have always been a huge Reaver fan, the added flexibility of two smaller and faster titans could be very useful.

Why the bikes? Simple, I really like the minis. I dont expect them to do much, but I really wanted a few in the force for modelling and visual reasons. (The way I am going, I will spend a LOT more time painting and looking at this force than actually playing with it!)

The Tactical formation is there as I want as many Marine stands as I can fit in with this force. I usually play 'swarm' armies, and the lack of bits of metal and plastic makes me nervous! I also think that these guys are really good value.

Predator (300) - 300

Whirlwind (300), Hunter (75) - 375

Terminator (325) - 325

Total: 1000

This final (for now!) block is a bit of an indulgence. I have just grouped together a few things that I really like (Predators) and a few that I feel that the force still needs (Hunter).

Initially, this block had Tactical Marines, a Chaplain and Razorbacks instead of Terminators and the Hunter. Then I realised that a single Hunter in the force of (potentially) 5000 points is really not going to be enough.

What are the opinions on just two Hunters in the army, will this do?

I also considered a couple of Thunderbolts, but I dont want my Marines tainted by the Imperial Navy. They just dont seem to fit this particular force.

So, what are the opinions on these additions? (Bearing in mind that most of this is fairly set in my mind right now!) I have no space craft, which means no Drop Pods, but I do have the Thunderhawk and teleporters. The only thing that I would have liked to include is a dreadnought or two, but I cant justify them and they dont fit with anything. Maybe for my Chaos force...

I also looked at the Land Raiders, but I really prefer the Predators by a long way.

In general, the force has some strong basic troops and does not rely on any facy tricks. It should play quite solidly and I am very happy with it.

Comments?

Top

nealhunt

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:42 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Looks really solid to me. The only thing I would say is that if you are going to skip air support, you need to have more Hunters scattered around. One just won't do much.

There's some little minor stuff that's really tweaks that I will throw out for consideration, but none of it is deal-breaker kind of stuff. It would be cool to have a captain in the other assault formation, so that once they left the Thawk, they could continue to do combined assaults. A commander would be useful in the bikes for the similar reasons (yes, I know there is a limit to the number of characters you want... honest). And putting the Devs in razorbacks is a nice, cheap boost in firepower.

_________________
Neal

Top

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:23 am

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

Thanks for your words.

I have two Hunters, one in the core force, and one in one of the 1000 point blocks. I agree that it is not much. I am not sure what I can cut to fund another Hunter (or two). I guess that I will need to keep some forces aware and watching out for air strikes. Are there other recognised tactics to ward off air problems with a small number of AA?

Is the commander ability really so useful? I am just as likely to pass the second activation as the first, and as long as the two formations do actually make the activation, is there a problem with them charging seperately? Is it serious enough for me to move the Terminator Librarian ( ?

?- please say no!) to the Assault formation and change him to a Captain? What about changing the Chaplain in the Assault foramtion in the main block into a Captain, so that when they run together in the Thunderhawk they will really run together? But, if they dont, is it worth it? ?

I think that I will skip the Bike Captain, I want this formation to act in isolation - protecting a flank, delaying a scout force or picking off devastated enemy formations. I want it to be really cheap and fairly expendable.

I would like more Razorbacks generally, but I dont have the points. If I run the Devastator block, I could change a few of the Tactical Razorbacks for Devastation Rhinos.

Just one other thing, do I have enough grunts? I worked out that I have 4 Tactical formations (24 stands) and 5 other infantry formations (20 stands). That gives me 44 stands in 5000 points. How does this compare to average Marine forces?

EDIT: Also, if I do change the Chaplain in the Assault formation in the core block to a Captain, is it good to change the Librarian in the Terminator formation to a Chaplain? I almost put a Chaplain there anyway, to give them a better chance of not being tied down in a close combat... Perhaps I will...

Top

Legion 4

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:12 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA

Generally, a well rounded force.

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Top

nealhunt

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:36 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

CS: It's fine as-is. I did not mean to imply it was lacking. I just presented some options that I might go with instead as a personal preference, not as a tactical or strategic issue.

I missed the second Hunter in the list. I think that'll be fine unless you face a really air-heavy force. 2 is enough to cover most of a board. Mostly, it will slow them down. Hopefully, that's enough. There's no tactical way of "stretching" AA ability that I know of outside of bunching up underneath the umbrella of coverage.

As far as Commander ability, SM formations are frequently small (especially a 4-unit assault detachment). Being able to do a combined assault adds to your side for the resolution considerably. Not only do you get the extra hits from the units firing, but you get extra units for counting up outnumbering bonuses. Assaulting separately is not really an equivalent option. If you lose with the first one, well, you lost (though you could follow-up with the second). If you win with the first one, the defender will probably withdraw away from your potential follow-up assault. Either way, the second assault is less than optimal.

Single-formation assaults are certainly feasible, but it's nice to be able to throw in everything at once. I'll take a single, big, near-guaranteed win over a couple of chancy assaults any day from a tactical perspective.

At the lower points, you are fine. By the time you get to 5K, you will probably find a second commander very useful, but still not mandatory.

On the Razorbacks, adding a bunch of twin lascannon razorbacks will boost your AT capacity for fewer points than, say, a Predator formation, but at the cost of one fewer formation. Really, it's just a tradeoff of flexibility for firepower, but one that I (as a personal preference) prefer.

==============

Again, none of this is to state that there are problems with the list, just some issues that I prefer to do differently and which I thought you might like to consider. It's a solid plan.

_________________
Neal

Top

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:06 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

neal - Thanks for your comments. Dont worry, I am so stubborn that even if someone points out just how bad my list is, I am likely to stick with it anyway. I appreciate a second opinion and some sage advice anytime.

I see your point about commanders. I would like to add more, as the current list stands at only four. I think that in an ideal world I would throw some more in (even if just for the modelling potential) but with the added restriction of the 1000 point blocks they will have to remain out for now. Still, I have one of each, and four should be enough with Marines being fairly good without them anyway.

I think that I will change the core Assault character to a Captain, and the Terminator character to a Chaplain (thank goodness I am a really slow painter - I have not assembled thiese stands yet!).

I had not even considered the fact that four Predators is the same points cost as 12 (yes, 12!) Razorbacks! That really puts things into perspective.

I am very tempted to do just this with the core block, giving me all three Tactical formations fully tooled up with Razorbacks....

On the other hand, I like the extra activation and being able to seperate the tanks from the troops, so they will probably stay for now. The next 3000 points, though...

Thanks for your comments.

Top

nealhunt

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:57 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Well, you do give up the rhinos with the razorbacks, too, so if you subtract that out of the points, it's more like 10 razorbacks for the cost of 4 preds. That's more even to my mind.

Good luck.

_________________
Neal

Top

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:04 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

True, but the Rhinos are 'free'! At first glance, it seemed that the Razorbacks were always going to be the better choice. However, looking at the stats again, the Preds get twice the firepower and and extra 'pip' save. So, for my evaluation, that means eight Pred guns to twelve RB guns, and the Preds survive more.

The list so far is great, and I am really happy with it, but this Pred/RB thing has me thinking.

For the Predators:
I get an extra activation and a formation which is seperated from infantry, allowing the tanks to do the tank thing, and the infantry to do what they do best. Also, I can leave the Rhinos behind without feeling guilty and garrison the Tactical formation giving more flexibility or Thunderhawk them in.

For the Razorbacks:
More firepower. While the Preds get twice the firepower, they are easier to take out as a formation. Also, the Preds second weapon is not as good. And the RBs can transport. In a stand up fight, the Razors have the advantage. But in terms of flexibility, it goes to the Preds.

It is made worse by the fact that these are the two tanks that I prefer in Epic, always have been!

I will most likley stick with the Predators, but I do feel that I missing a great deal with the Razorbacks. :;):

Any comments? I need help!

(Otherwise I can see another 1000 point block on the horizon!)

Top

vanvlak

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:59 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am
Posts: 10348
Location: Malta

Quote (CyberShadow @ 12 2004 Jan.,22:04)

It is made worse by the fact that these are the two tanks that I prefer in Epic, always have been!

Hi Cybershadow,
I think this sentence is the clincher - get another 1000pt block!

(and no, I'm not in the GW payroll)

_________________
Back from oblivion (again)?

Top

CyberShadow

Post subject: Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:42 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

I am sure that I willl. The problem is that this force is designed as a stand alone, something that I can get painted up as quickly as possible, then I can use this to play while I spend more time developing an army that I will spend more effort on.

I will go back and add the occassional 1000 point block to it, but I have my beloved Genestealer Cult, my Tyranid Seeding Swarm and I just won a load of second edition Eldar from EBay (with the Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons and standard bearers!).

Decisions, decisions...

Top

Print view

Previous topic | Next topic

Page 9 of 14

[ 200 posts ]

Go to page Previous 1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 14 Next

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 104 guests

Not Speed Painting - An Alternative Diary!

Who is online