Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

Hive Fleet Leviathan v5.0 [not NetEA]

 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:42 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
zombocom wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Well, I like the structure.

It's probably bannanas overpowered, mind you.


Shrug. A lot of the points costs are total guesswork with these new rules.

I wouldn't be surprised if with these new special rules you end up with a balanced army that has a model count closer to space marines than orks. we'll see.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Ulrik wrote:
Would it be possible to get a printerfriendly version? Or is there an easy way to create one?

Grey background seems like such a waste when printing...

edit: managed to print a couple of (barely readable) pages by editing the pages in paint. Should be good enough for now.


Attached is a boring, printer friendly version.


Attachments:
hive fleet leviathan printer friendly.pdf [214.36 KiB]
Downloaded 303 times

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:52 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Evil and Chaos wrote:
zombocom wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Well, I like the structure.

It's probably bannanas overpowered, mind you.


Shrug. A lot of the points costs are total guesswork with these new rules.

I wouldn't be surprised if with these new special rules you end up with a balanced army that has a model count closer to space marines than orks. we'll see.


No idea yet. Swarming will result in quite a lot less units coming back to play, which may balance it out. Compared to the last version of leviathan, there are a few basic changes:

Spawning Queue -> Swarming: On the whole probably a downgrade.
Regeneration: An upgrade, but only affects one unit in my list that has received a price bump in response.
Absorption: An upgrade, but not one I see being used much
Synapseless can't claim objectives: Downgrade.
No -2 when broken: This is the only realy clear-cut upgrade.

When combined with the across the board cuts in stats, I don't see it as being neccessarily more powerful than before.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:56 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
An assault army does not need larger formations, it needs activations.

Nids should have both in my humble opinion.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:04 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
They have the option to take small formations if they want (hell, a Hive Tyrant and 2 Tyrant Guards is a legal formation!), but a nid army should encourage big swarms.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:31 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:15 am
Posts: 1832
Location: Oslo, Norway
Quick comment: Shouldn't the Synapse Node be speed immobile? As I understand the rules, 0cm speed still allows you to claim the road bonus to move a bit. Appropriate for artillery pieces like Baran's, but not really for a synapse node.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:36 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Ulrik wrote:
Quick comment: Shouldn't the Synapse Node be speed immobile? As I understand the rules, 0cm speed still allows you to claim the road bonus to move a bit. Appropriate for artillery pieces like Baran's, but not really for a synapse node.


If the road slopes, maybe it slides. :D

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:30 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
I agree, it should be immobile, and I noticed that when writing the list, but the stats are up to Dave. I presume this was an oversight.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:04 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:39 am
Posts: 36
Hi people,

I just tried the leviathan_v3 list below against a core necron list with some variations (asdepicas will give better detail on the contents, but there was an abbatoir, just 1 pylon, about 4 obelisk+monolith groups, 1 trio of monoliths and 3-4 infantry with leader and pariahs):

TYRANID LEVIATHAN v3.0 ARMY LIST (3000 POINTS)
4 X Core groups (1350)
- 1 x Horde swarm - Domina 450
o 1 x Dominatrix 400
o 4 x hormagaunts 50
- 3 x Horde swarm - Slaver 900 (300 each)
o 1 x Tervigon 125
o 2 x Tyranofex 125
o 4 x hormagaunts 50
4 X Support groups (1650)
- 1 x Imperator prime (most valuable formation) 600
o 1 x Hierophant prime 350
o 1 x Hierophant 250
- 1 x Hierophant prime 350
- 1 x Hierophant prime 350
- 1 x Hierophant prime 350


I've lost on the 3rd turn (2-0) after having some bad critical results in the big guys, so being unable to control territory enough, and with the abbatoir keeping just two wounds after around 20 saves.

To tell the truth, the army was just an experiment to check how unbalancd a deeply war engine based formation in leviathan could be (what the Hive Mind sends for breaking high fortifications and wrecking cities mainly). My idea was to see tyranofexes and bio-titans having units heads down in their cover, while the enemy had to go through a curtain of gaunts, until the bio-titans could arrive and open the gap. The experiment went better than expected, but not overkilling at all.

Great points in the army:
- Very disuasory view, with so powerful activations that the enemy doesn't really know where to go.
- Good firefight punch, compared to the tyranid usual.
- Fearless is unvaluable, being most probably the main thing making a pointed firefight disband your line It really looks quite like with the tyranids in WH40k when the units have to be destroyed to the very last, with costly expenses.
- Gaunts are a great screen for the big guys: the enemy disregards them most of the time, as they aren't dangerous enough, but their death in assault saves the core, and you can replenish with the tervigons.
- Everything is synapse, so it's easy to regroup.

Weaknesses:
- Not to many activations, so easily rounded against some armies and not much left to cover the objectives.
- You can't put any unit to far from the other, or synapse creatures won't retake the falling formations into them.
- Critical hits is what balances fighting against such an army (every hit is a pain, be it for the extra wounds, which make your regeneration go to shit, or because some important creature dies horribly, with all his extra points).
- Firefights are still a problem for the tyranids (which is fine); even with a good number of shots, the 5+ still hurt. Skimmers become a real problem.
- No AA, as quite usual in a tyranid army (although it doesn't seem really horrible, as the spare BMs put by aeroplanes wouldn't have been a real different, and you're fearless, so no extra hits), and the extra impacts wouldn't have been to bad.
- Titan killers put your core to rubbish.
- No way of really damaging far shooters (need to include something, hopefully with firefight, that can control a distant target) or taking easily distant points: need something more movable (I paid very expensively some errors on early movement, indeed, trying to destroy never dying monoliths...).

Surprises for the necrons:
- Once you find the way to combat them, you're way better than the big guys in assault.
- The pylons are so worth of their cost when the enemy has war engines everywhere (they're just good at disuading, and so painful).
- The abbatoir is so resilient (DC8, living metal, fearless, 11x [CC2+ OR firefight5+]) and a gosh darned firefight supporter for holding onto the middle area of the table.

Next list to try is a Tyranids_v10, to check for some differences. I hope you liked it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:11 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:39 am
Posts: 36
After viewing the results, I'd say the core units are great, but the support units should have been something like:

2 x Hierophant prime + hierophant units, and the other 450 points something more table controlling (tunnelers, upgrading the hormagaunts to termagaunts and making them 8, instead of four...).

I've realized now I've made such a big mistake: forgot about the commander ability of the Dominatrix, what might have put down the Abbatoir when it should, instead of becoming a problem later.

I'm wishing to try the hive tyrant and mixed carnifex formations next time though. They look so cool.

Even if I finally lost quite badly, just in the third turn, I enjoyed every minute of the battle, and I can say that the necrons where up to quit at mid 2nd turn, as fearless reinforced 4+ army could be so desperating. However, once criticals start to come, they really make the difference. Luckily for hem, they decided to go on at that point: this army has a great initial punch, but loses a great push when big guys go slowly falling (which is so cool of reflecting how a tyranid line breaking works: something like Minas Tirith Siege in LOTR 3rd film).


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:43 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:34 am
Posts: 135
this was the necron army

abbatoir (orb may be better.. but wanted to test this one)
infantry pahalanx (2 inmortals)
infantry pahalanx (2 inmortals)
infantry pahalanx (2 inmortals, pariah)
3 monolith
monolith,2 obelisk
monolith,2 obelisk
monolith,2 obelisk
monolith,2 obelisk
pylon

must say that first turn was horrible due to dice being really against me (he did not failed any save roll, even passed 3 invulnerables of 3 tried) but in the third turn things changed drastically allowing me to win an assault from a hierodule that should have broken an infantry formation and to allow the abatoir (who had lost an assault against a hierodule) survive to the battle

what i liked from his army
- how nyds play the attrition game, its really demoralyzing (thats how it should be)
- its not just a mindless assault army, it has more firepower than i supposed... that could have cost me the game
- not being too good at firefight they at least can defend themselves, fearing to see termagants in his armies
- spawning works well, helping with enemy demoralyling

what i didnt liked
-being able to do a whole warengine army, its not a titan legion army, and doesnt seem right to me to allow people to play like it was
-4+ reinforced fearless assault armies can be a bit too overpowered, being fearless allows them to lose firefights and still remain there, assaulting next turn with a close combat capability capable of anihilating nearly any formation they assault. armies with few skimmers can struggle to death against such lists in a not too funny way
-tau armies can be a real pain in the neck to nyds, many skimmers with long range heavy firepower backup seems the perfect combination against them


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:34 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Interesting. I have to admit that I hadn't really considered the extreme all WE list. Perhaps some kind of "max 1/3 points on Biotitans" rule is neccessary after all.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:34 am
Posts: 135
zombocom wrote:
Interesting. I have to admit that I hadn't really considered the extreme all WE list. Perhaps some kind of "max 1/3 points on Biotitans" rule is neccessary after all.


not sure if that would be the answer as core formations can be filled with WEs (dominatrix, tervigon, tyranofex...) its easy to field a fully WE army even with the biotitan restriction... anyway, maybe only biotitans should be limited as tervigons and the like are intended to be seen in great number and are more a support WE for the gaunts than a main unit itself


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:39 am
Posts: 36
I agree tervigons in numbers are great: many current tyranid armies include 3 and 3 trygons, so it looks very consistent.

About the bio-titans, to tell the truth, I wouldn't say they were overwhelming, but it's probably because of the so many skimmers with fearless living metal (that's really resilient, and not the bio-titans...). We could see how it works with the limit, although I don't think I'd repeat the list. It has quite many gaps which can be easily exploited.

As previously said, I remark tyranids have a real problem with skimmers, but accuter with high save fearless skimmers, as about half of their cores are CC only units and/or "non AT profile at all" units, which invalidates half your armies. It means all Eldar, Tau and Necrons become a real problem, just with their usual lists.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Leviathan v3.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:24 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
I'm just concerned at the pure number of DC possible with that list; I don't see it being much fun for an unprepared opponent. As mentioned, this isn't a bio-titan list, so it probably needs a limit of some kind.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 113 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net