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Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2

 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:50 pm 
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The old 'you're having fun wrong' approach? ;)
You *can* have a Marine army made up entirely of Whirlwinds. Doesn't mean that anyone *does*.
I'm in favour of flexibility; and the ability to take all Eldar Titans should at least be an option - just as you can Have all Titans in AMTL or all Gargants in OGBM.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:52 pm 
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For me I'd love to see a list that allows a battle titan and a pair of scout titans, or two battle titans. Most lists seem to limit you to either one titan formation or all titan formations.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:30 am 
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Why are Titan armies so severly limited on other formations? The ATML can't even take bring fighter cover, while the ETC has aircraft in the (very limited) allies section.

I'd like to test a list something like what Rug talks about (when I get time after playing Nids for a bit). Something like the Biel-Tan troupe and spacecraft/aircraft section, add a Guardian troupe with farseer and usual options (maybe not wraithguard), with either 2 or 3 troupes per warhost (titan formation). No Void Spinners obviously, and no titans in the spacecraft/aircraft. Maybe limit spacecraft/aircraft to 25%?


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:31 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
Personally, I think no list should be able to be only titans. That's an entirely different game, something like Battletech or Adeptus Titanicus.

Exactly how I feel about Titan lists too. It's never felt right that the 1/3rd rule is essentially broken by a titan force.

EDIT- actually, has anyone considered doing a proper Epic: Titanicus rule set?


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:49 am 
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Quote:
has anyone considered doing a proper Epic: Titanicus rule set?

I wrote a new stand-alone Titanicus game a couple of years ago. Pretty good, campaign based game. Lotta fun IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:00 am 
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Wow so much traction!

I'm still taking most of it in however a quick note. Trying to take a different approach to a Titan list that isn't similar to the others does a disservice to the Eldar. Why should Orks and Imperials be able to run all or mostly Titans yet limit Eldar. If people want to limit themselves they can but I don't think forcing people too it the right path. One of the reason I limited the Infantry option is that E&C requested it, but either way made sense that a Titan Clan would mainly have Titans and not a bunch of other stuff. But if needed things can make a return, I personally like the Windriders too.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:23 am 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
has anyone considered doing a proper Epic: Titanicus rule set?

I wrote a new stand-alone Titanicus game a couple of years ago. Pretty good, campaign based game. Lotta fun IMO.

I'd be very interested to see that – any chance of a link?


Further thoughts
This is from the original Eldar Titan Clan background in White Dwarf:
Quote:
Most Eldar craft-worlds have their own Titan forces whose crews work together with an Infinity Circuit.

The Infinity Circuit is used in many forms by the Eldar, where other races would use computers and similar devices. Each Infinity Circuit is imprinted with the character and memories of a living Eldar through the process of ‘soul-grafting’ (Failleanam). The Eldar’s body is left as a mindless husk, but his thoughts live on in the Infinity Circuit . Soul-grafting is seen as the ultimate sacrifice that an Eldar can make for his people, and the ancestors and relatives who live on within Infinity Circuits are treated with great respect. They are revered and marked by the title of Tuisich-Novasmair, which Imperial sources normally translate as Lord-Phoenix.

'Lord Phoenix' would probably be confused with Phoenix Lord these days, but 'Tuisich-Novasmair' could be a good title for the Supreme Commander upgrade?

Quote:
The Infinity Circuit of an Eldar titan is normally mounted in the centre of the crew compartment, and takes the form of a large and intricately faceted piece of carrecenad, the ‘soul-stone’ which forms the basis of Infinity Circuit technology. Unlike their Human counterparts, the crew of an Eldar Titan is not physically connected to the machine; smaller chips of stone set in headbands allow the crew to meld psychically with the Infinity Circuit and the highly-sophisticated Mind Impulse Units it controls.

'Carrecenad' or 'Soul-stone' might be a good alternative for the exarch upgrade?

+++
Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Trying to take a different approach to a Titan list that isn't similar to the others does a disservice to the Eldar. Why should Orks and Imperials be able to run all or mostly Titans yet limit Eldar. If people want to limit themselves they can but I don't think forcing people too it the right path.


Agreed. Having dedicated War Engine forces, as long as they're balanced, is a good addition to the game, in my opinion. In fact, I prefer Titans to remain largely in their own forces; I prefer to keep alliances etc. out of my games.

Quote:
One of the reason I limited the Infantry option is that E&C requested it, but either way made sense that a Titan Clan would mainly have Titans and not a bunch of other stuff. But if needed things can make a return, I personally like the Windriders too.

This is the other side of the coin – if the army has lots of War Engines, it needs restrictions in other areas, so limiting infantry options makes sense to me. That way, there are deliberate strengths and weaknesses built into the list; just as there are in any of the non War-Engine-based armies.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:30 am 
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The Ghosting rule sounds cool however I doubt there would be much support for it. Most people around here poop on more Special Rules, lol.

Again naming on the Character are just there as a place holder. Steersmen sounds good to me.

What units do "we" think should be in the support options? Grav Tanks? Aspects? Warwalkers? Jetbikes?

Maybe it needs more? 3 ground units does seem low on reflection. I envisioned a list being mainly Titans with little or no available ground support and the rest of the Craftwolrd taking flight (hence no AC limit) to cover and protect there Titan brotheren. Eh?

Titan shoot MW well but nothing else. True and its a issue I've been thinking about. The only thing that jumps to mind is changing old Eldar weapons profiles or making new ones. I know how people feel about that later but I don't see any other choice I think.

I haven't seen much test of the Wraithgate option. In most list the Storm Serpent is a must have, then why are we not seeing it in the ETC? Lack of option that can use it?

Knights, there just kinda sitting there and I don't know what to do with them. Come on Eldar Knight Fluffers! Ideas!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:35 am 
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Ohhh some good fluff there! Thanks Apologist! Even if you are Hijacking my thread for a link on a Titan game! ::) :P

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:45 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
[color=#00FF00]I'm still taking most of it in however a quick note. Trying to take a different approach to a Titan list that isn't similar to the others does a disservice to the Eldar. Why should Orks and Imperials be able to run all or mostly Titans yet limit Eldar.


If you go with a standard hoste-troupe structure, it wouldn't limit Eldar Titans. They could still run all-titan if they wanted to.

However, as the ETC seems to be the only Titan list that is actually underpowered, I think it's a great chance to experiment a bit more with list structure. With my suggestion you could still, as I said, run all-titan, but you could also run around 50-60% of your points in titans and the rest in supporting formations.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:46 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Ohhh some good fluff there! Thanks Apologist! Even if you are Hijacking my thread for a link on a Titan game! ::) :P

Anybody wants it, PM me with an email address.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan List 2.2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Ohhh some good fluff there! Thanks Apologist! Even if you are Hijacking my thread for a link on a Titan game! ::) :P


Heh heh. Here's a weblink that contains some collected material:
Link to the Webwaaaaaaay.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
The Ghosting rule sounds cool however I doubt there would be much support for it. Most people around here poop on more Special Rules, lol.

That seems a shame. I can understand a certain conservatism – the rules bloat that afflicts 40k is awful – but swapping one unique special army rule for another (Farsight for Ghosting) helps establish different the character of a variant list, and provides a useful opportunity for a balancing mechanism if necessary. Farsight represents the direction of the Craftworld's Seer Council, but it would make sense to me to have a rule that helps bring out the unique character of the Eldar Titan Clans; rather than hijacking a rule that (as I argued earlier) detracts from their Eldar 'feel'.

The AMTL has a perfect example – God Machines is a balancing factor that is unique to the list, even though the army shares the same models with others.

+++
If you'd like the rule playtested, I've got a 4500pt game of Codex Astartes using the current Trial rules up against the current ETC list this evening. I'll do a battle report with the Ghosting rule in place.

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