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Archived [NetEA]Dark Angels 2.1
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:25 pm 
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I have no problem with a unified list. Better than have to separate lists :D

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Sagan771
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:36 am 
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Reading through your new list now.
- I take it you dropped the Typhoon from Ravenwing support?
- I like Deathwing support
- why not put in Devastator support, Assault support and also make them available
to the Tactical Detachment? (this is has been my idea for awhile now- make a Battle
Company)
- I like adding Ironwing support to the Devastator detachment.
- I like Ironwing support and would not mind upping it to 4 instead of two.
- Like the Crusader option and wonder why not the Prometheus LR and Helios?
- Still think points should come down on the Land Raiders
- Still need to take time to read and think about the DA speecial rules.
- Really think Stormravens should be added to the Dark Angels
- Dark Angels need Air support of some type
I think your list is looking good. Maybe you and BlackLegion can come up with a good list.

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You ran Thunderbolts? None of the Dark Angel lists have Allies including Thunderbolts and Titans.

Yes, I did and I know there not part of any of lists. Been trying them out for the
last few games.

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Simulated Knave
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:40 am 
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Quote:
- why not put in Devastator support, Assault support and also make them available
to the Tactical Detachment? (this is has been my idea for awhile now- make a Battle
Company)


Say, son, has anyone ever told you about the Apocrypha of Skaros? ;)

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Sagan771
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:58 am 
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Say, son, has anyone ever told you about the Apocrypha of Skaros?

No, have not looked at them. Take a look later. but i'm DA player since 88 or 89. sucks being old.

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Simulated Knave
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:19 am 
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They might work for your purposes. :)

Anyway - back to the show!

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:50 am 
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Sagan771 wrote:
1.I take it you dropped the Typhoon from Ravenwing support?
2.I like Deathwing support
3.why not put in Devastator support, Assault support and also make them available
to the Tactical Detachment? (this is has been my idea for awhile now- make a Battle
Company)
4.I like adding Ironwing support to the Devastator detachment.
5.I like Ironwing support and would not mind upping it to 4 instead of two.
6.Like the Crusader option and wonder why not the Prometheus LR and Helios?
7.Still think points should come down on the Land Raiders
8.Still need to take time to read and think about the DA speecial rules.
9.Really think Stormravens should be added to the Dark Angels
10.Dark Angels need Air support of some type

Long list there......But let me preface with this. Any "Chapter Variant" list will focus on those specific traits that makes them different in battle. We all know BA, IF, DA etc could have or use different Land Raider types and units but they may not work or follow the same style of warfare or what the Chapter list is aiming to do. I think of the variant list not so chapter tied and more like an area of warfare. I would have no issue using my DA painted army and say the Core Codex, Dark Angel or even Imperial Fist list etc. The lists are there just to give focus and uniqueness not necessarily a Full Blow List like a 40k DA Codex would be. With that most of your comments can be answered with that in mind. I mean I'm sure DA could PlanetFall Land Speeders but that better suited for Raven Guard or I could run a bunch of Melta weapons but that is more of a Salamander thing. I hope people understand that pile of word vomit I just wrote at 0330. ::)

Here goes:

1. Yes, My thought and vision of a RW Support group I believe Tornadoes or base speeders not Typhoons or Codex formations.
2. Me too. I thought it gave the Hunt for the Fallen feel more.
3. Well first off I'm trying make a list base of Hunt for the Fallen ops not standard Battle ops like a Codex list would and also as SK mention in his shameless plug there another list out there that does that.
4. To give that option of load Devs in a spearhead vibe.
5. Uping it to 4 would make really big formation for SM. Usually SM formation are small since they have ATSKNF.
6. I only added LRC because there a good Terminator transport and since DW is one of the spotlights I thought it fit.
7. I don't really wanna throw test prices out there. This list will conform to what ever the current "Core" Codex list has for prices.
8. Np, there not that much IMHO.
9. Again that not really DA ish.
10. Yes. Not sure how to tackle that yet. Using 2 Hunter per formation was a unique way handling it that wasn't ever completely tested and now since DA don't have that ability exclusively (IF list too) then another AA option maybe needed.
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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:51 am 
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Simulated Knave wrote:
Say, son, has anyone ever told you about the Apocrypha of Skaros? ;)

I love your Shamless Plug btw SK. ::) :D ;D ;)


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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:55 pm 
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Very interesting changes. But what i don`t like is the MkII Plasma Cannon. Ok i like the stats :D but as long as the NetERC don`t change the rulebook Plasma Cannon you should use the rulebook Plasma Cannon stats because there is no such thing as a MkII Plasma Cannon in Wh40k`s universe.

And you naming system is a bit hmmm blunt :D For exampel: Plasma Tacticals? I would name them either Dark Angels Tacticals (as in Salamanders Tacticals) or change the name to a more generic Executioner Tacticals (as in Siege Tacticals for Multi-melta equipped ones for a non-Chapter specific term as i did in the Siege Vanguard list).

You also dropped the Mortis Dreadnought :( in favour of the Hellfire Dreadnought.

The Deathwing Librarian should have Hellfire as the name of his psychic attack. It`s only a name but it fits more.

Else i`m suprisingly pelased with your list :)

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Simulated Knave
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:31 pm 
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Quote:
I love your Shamless Plug btw SK. ::) :D ;D ;)


It's what I'm here for.

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:07 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Very interesting changes. But what i don`t like is the MkII Plasma Cannon. Ok i like the stats :D but as long as the NetERC don`t change the rulebook Plasma Cannon you should use the rulebook Plasma Cannon stats because there is no such thing as a MkII Plasma Cannon in Wh40k`s universe.

The naming was just so there wouldn't be any confusion on the different stats. I agree I rather have them match everyone else but I can't fathom them being any good to use with current Slow Fire stats. Maybe we should knock on the ERC door again?

BlackLegion wrote:
And you naming system is a bit hmmm blunt :D For exampel: Plasma Tacticals? I would name them either Dark Angels Tacticals (as in Salamanders Tacticals) or change the name to a more generic Executioner Tacticals (as in Siege Tacticals for Multi-melta equipped ones for a non-Chapter specific term as i did in the Siege Vanguard list).

Naming was just really a place holder and I know its not a pretty one. :D I think using Executioner and Siege type name would be good instead of Chapter names.

BlackLegion wrote:
You also dropped the Mortis Dreadnought :( in favour of the Hellfire Dreadnought.

IIRC TRC mention that most of the Mortis patterns could be taken in the standard Codex now so i figure take the traditional DA pattern Dread which I feel is the shooty ML/Las ie Hellfire. Plus its one less new unit.

BlackLegion wrote:
The Deathwing Librarian should have Hellfire as the name of his psychic attack. It`s only a name but it fits more.

I agree. I was just cut and pasting that stuff. Might be cool if was a different attack to but thats down the road I think.

BlackLegion wrote:
Else i`m suprisingly pleased with your list :)

Really? :o Awesome! :D What did you think of DW with other formations? I thought it was Fallen Hunting ish. Also do have any idea about fixing the AA cover issue? I don't think extra Hunter is going to hack it plus its not a excursive thing to the list anymore.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:47 pm 
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I guess the extra Terminators would make the Tacticals really hard to shift. Thats what Intractable is all about :D

On the other hand: The Deathwing (as well as the Ravenwing) tend to keep their ordinary brethren away from the Fallen.

AA cover IS a problem. But the Dark Angels get extra large Terminator formations and extra alpha-strike oomph (rulebook Plasma Cannons) to counter this.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:21 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
The naming was just so there wouldn't be any confusion on the different stats. I agree I rather have them match everyone else but I can't fathom them being any good to use with current Slow Fire stats. Maybe we should knock on the ERC door again?

I'm not a fan of the MkII idea. For one thing why are DA plasmas better different? And secondly if you go down that road everyone will be changing plasma cannons to MKII cannons. ::) Until the question of plasmas is revisited by the ERC, just stick with standard cannons. If the unit/formation is underperforming then we can perhaps look at price drops for DA Tacs instead.

blackLegion wrote:
I would name them either Dark Angels Tacticals.

I agree.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
IIRC TRC mention that most of the Mortis patterns could be taken in the standard Codex now so i figure take the traditional DA pattern Dread which I feel is the shooty ML/Las ie Hellfire. Plus its one less new unit.

Agreed on this last bit especially.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
What did you think of DW with other formations? I thought it was Fallen Hunting ish.

I like it, but oh my gosh! shall we say "Space Wolves-like"? :D :D I knew the DA were a jealous lot but this is funny :D
Seriously though it does work and I like the theory of Fallen-hunting ad-hoc formations tailored for certain missions etc etc.

Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
Also do have any idea about fixing the AA cover issue? I don't think extra Hunter is going to hack it plus its not a excursive thing to the list anymore.

An option might be a Dark Angels Hunter that fires 2x AA but loses its AT ability. It may not be exactly canon with the fluff but then the Hunter never was to begin with and it's not a huge stretch to imagine the DA recognising a gap in their armoury.... It would also provide a DA-specific weapon to help cement the "Chapter-apart" style while providing better AA capability. Pricing might need to be number-crunched for balance though <shrug>
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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:34 am 
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So BL, given you're the sub-AC while TRC is away, are you happy to incorporate all/some of AoC's designs into the DA list?
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:06 am 
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I`m happy. My concerns (Plasma, some names, etc) are stated above.

Random thought: Why not switch the Hunter for the Whirlwind Hyperios? 2 x 45cm AT5+/AA5+ shots.

Oh and TRC would lament the absence of the Plasma-sponson Predator :)

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: AoC's Dark Angels Variant List
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:22 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
I`m happy. My concerns (Plasma, some names, etc) are stated above.

Awesome! As with regards to name I really would like to find something isn't Chaper specific(that goes for all lists too). ::)
BlackLegion wrote:
Random thought: Why not switch the Hunter for the Whirlwind Hyperios? 2 x 45cm AT5+/AA5+ shots.

Umm...I'm game for it but IIRC it was a bit heated topic. I assume DA could still take 2 of them per formation?
BlackLegion wrote:
Oh and TRC would lament the absence of the Plasma-sponson Predator :)

I don't have a issue adding it in to options of Predators. But IIRC the main turret was an Autocannon instead of a Plasma weapon and that is the issue I have with it. Lets not call a tank Plasma ish if only the side weapons are plasma.

Maybe...

Predator Executioner

AV 30cm A4+ CC6+ FF4+
Plasma Thingy 45cm MW5+? or 2x AP3+/AT5+?
2x Lascannon 45cm AT5+
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