As I said earlier, their access to an inspiring character at its current points level for several years has proven distinctly uninspiring (heh).

A lot of the time, Rough Riders get a free Inspiring character, and they hardly rock peoples' worlds, either.

If you're looking only at game balance, there's no problem with them having an inspiring character available IMO.

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I'm with zombo and E&C on the Stealers and Broodlord. I really consider them underpowered. The extra CC power is not an issue if they never get to use it and most opponents will not give them that opportunity. I'm not sure I've ever been btb'd by them but then I play Tau and skimmer heavy Marines.

The main use of Lictors in the games I've played against Nids is as a turn 3 Blitz grab or to try to conest an objective. In an SR1 army teleport isn't much good for anything else. Don't really have much of an issue with them.

Again, if you never see them initiate an engagement, how can you tell if they're underpowered? Their cc stats have nothing to do with their ability to get across the board - scout, infiltrator, and use of cover/garrison address that issue. When they get into BtB in a prepped assault, they do significant damage.

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That's true, and the power of that attack is balanced out by the difficulty of pulling it off, due to the save, lack of FF and rubbish SR.

Bear in mind that Rough Riders cost the same, have almost identical abilities and get SR2 and a free commissar.

If you think Genestealers are too good you must be foaming at the mouth about rough riders.

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Don't forget about initiative 1+ and not being mounted though, plus any effects from Mobility.

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We haven't forgotten about it, as we've watched them die in droves over the years. They're not overpowered and don't need a downgrade IMO. If anything, the opposite.

What armies are you playing them against that they're succeeding so much?
We generally try and play Tyranids (Or any experimental list) against established, well regarded lists.

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Mostly IG, SM and BL with a few Eldar and an odd Squat thrown in here or there. This isn't comprehensive but it's a pretty good chunk of the games. They have 2@cc4+ prior to v0.3.



Given the low SR I've found you pretty much need to assume you won't be going first next turn and plan accordingly. Often I give my opponents 4-6 things they have to worry about at the start of the turn so they can't deal with them all. If they only have 1-2 things to worry about then they deal with them on their first activation and a retain, leaving you hamstrung.

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Personally I think all independents, GS included, should be Init 2+.

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Had a browse. Interesting that almost every use of the Genestealers in an assault in your reports seems to see them broken either from losing the engagement or from casualties sustained in a winning engagement.


Of course, that's the only way you'll get anywhere when playing Tyranids.

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I think 20 cm movement on Lictors will improve their performance despite the reduction of attacks. Then you would not have to deploy within the enemy's engagement range with SR1.

As I find neither Genestealers nor Lictors overpowered, I have no problem with that. Teleport and SR 1 is not that big of a threat. For Genestealers, First Strike is their only durability. I usually take one or two Genestealers and I find that their threat/annoyance factor is of higher importance than their combat abilities. I use them almost exclusively to deny/contest objectives. As a pure CC formation, they are extremely vulnerable to being engaged through FF.

Broodlords are rarely worth 50 points, despite Inspiring. They are still stuck on an INF with a 6+ save in a small formation. In Onachus, I spotted that you can field larger Genestealer formations (up to 12), which I might try real soon if Onachus and Leviathan are the lists under present consideration.

/Fredmans

On Lictors, it's notable that EpicUK went with Infantry Status (Not a downgrade to LV), and that they're still regarded as a sub-par choice by Tyranid players I've encountered so far.

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Maybe true for that group, but not necessarily for others. Meta-game. Meta-game. Meta-game.

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hmm. I didn't know the meta game precluded the use of genestealers' scout, infiltrator, and garrison abilities in order to get them into combat, but ok.

EDIT: not that those abilities make them overpowered, to be clear, but spread them out in cover close to the enemy and they're a threat that cannot be ignored.

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Yes, a threat that cannot be ignored - hence why they are found to be wanting when you go to use them. With the Nids low SR, they are most likley going to go last

Seeing these scouts are set up before anything else (usually) it is either a General lacking in strategy, or someone that likes to take extreme risks, that would have these guys in combat without at least a -3 to the resulting combat before the dice are rolled. Combine this with the fact that after setting up scouts, the Nid player has less units to set up, and there you have it, you are relying on the luck of the dice more than strategy to use these guys at their full potential.

Mycetic spores are a whole different matter, and if they are allowed in these, then their appropriate values should be built into the spores and not the base unit.

The experiences outside of your group are just as relevant as your findings due to the term meta-game, regardless of unit abilities. The fact that the findings are the same across more than one continent alone speaks volumes. Your group either uses them more effectively than the rest of us, or your tactics/meta-game are/is different.

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As Dave said, a lot of the battles are posted. Has anyone taken a look?

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