Hey TC crowd!

I'm very new to Epic, but a very nearly 20 year wargames veteran.

This looks to be an exciting place (o:


Anyways - I'm somewhat confused by the Wraithguard army list entry. It states that thy have 2 15cm MW attacks, but the firefight stat says 'Extra Attacks (+1), Macro-Weapon'. My epic veteran friend tells me that this means that they only get one macro weapon attack in a firefight; the other being 'normal'.

This seems somewhat counterintuitive to me. Do the wraith constructs really lose all coherence and throw rocks at the opponent when the going gets close? I know all about rules != fluff, still this one really glares to me.

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Let there be code.

You need to keep in mind that 'shooting' attacks are different from firefight [FF] attacks. When a wraithguard stand shoots, it shoots twice (2xMW5+) with a range of 15cm. If the wraithguard stand is involved in an assault, then it uses either its CC (if in Base-to-Base contact with an enemy) or its FF ability (if not in base-to-base contact). If the wraithguard stand uses its FF ability, it gets one regular attack and one extra attack that has the MW ability.

This is an example of how the basic rules are applied to a particular unit. The way the rules of EA work, whenever a CC or FF weapon has both extra attacks AND some special weapon ability, then the special ability applies only to the extra attack.

As to why wraithcannons aren't treated the same as the multimeltas on SM land speeders, I can't say. It's probably because giving them just the MW FF attack would make them weaker (relative to the other units in the list) than they should be, but giving them 2 MW FF attacks would make them too strong. So, they get 1 regular FF attack, and 1 MW FF attack.

For starters there isn't much difference between 2 MW shots at 5+ and 1 MW shot at 4+ and a regular shot at 4+ (I'm going by the NetEA list here).

Your friend is right. And in terms of justification for it you can imagine that, due to the game's 'flexible' time and space scales, there isn't as much time to shoot in an assault as there is in normal shooting. The comment you made about wraithguard would also apply to a lot of other troop types who see their shooting capabilities diminished once it becomes an assault.

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That was swift; thanks (o:

I guess I'll just have to imagine them throwing their wraithcannons at the enemy or something, then.

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Let there be code.

Flexible time scale. No throwing of wraithcannons.

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Welcome to the boards! I see where you’re coming from, but try to abstract the overall effects a bit more and not let the specifics of the way the rules work with this concern you. The rules and norms in the two areas of the game just work in different ways.

To give an example of a similar case from another game system - in W40k a plasma pistol is an awesomely powerful pistol at up to 12”, yet when used in close combat it functions exactly the same as a las pistol in providing an extra attack. W40k Assault rules work a different way to the shooting rules, though they may use some of the same weapons. If a plasma pistol were to be as amazing at both up to 12” and in close combat it would probably be excessively good.

It’s the same with Epic shooting and assaults. Good shooting ability in Epic doesn’t necessarily translate into good firefight – some units are deliberately better or worse at one or other. Look at Predator Annihilators for example – at shooting they are excellent, with 3 AT shots. Yet at FF they are poor with only a single 5+ attack.

Epic has extra assault attacks with special abilities normally only applying to that extra attack. Terminators, for example, get an Extra Attack with Macro Weapon (MW) in close combat, yet their basic close combat attack does not have MW. The overall firefight ability of Wraithguard compared to most other stands is excellent though – they're one of the best firefight infantry in the game.

Plus there's some game balance in there isn't it. Originally MW applied to all attacks, but almost all units with both Macro Weapon and Extra Attacks were found to be overpowered (were war engines especially bad?), so the rule that MW on an EA weapon only applied to the extra attacks from the weapon was implemented.

Get some toys out on the table and have a throw down. It becomes much clearer when you see things working on the table. All MW assaulting Wraith contructs would be amazing, and they are great as they are.

Oh; we've played a few games (o:

Thanks for your helpfulness.

Here's my army, in case you're interrested:




All painted over four weeks time - certainly not golden demon class, but hell; when you're 6mm tall, don't expect two brush blended kneecaps =P

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Let there be code.

Oh; here's another:

Say I take a guadian squad and an aspect warrior squad with an autach, both in wave serpents. I activate the guardians first, summon the Avatar and assault someting, then, assuming I win the assault and the avatar survives, then use the Hit & Run tactics special rule to consolidate the avatar close to the Aspect dudes. Could I then bring the avatar into the new assault using the Commander special rule the Autach has (thru Supreme Commander)?

This would essentially give the avatar two activations in one turn, and seems just a tad op, but I can't find a rule prohibiting it.

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Let there be code.

For starters the avatar is summoned at the beginning of the turn, like terminators teleporting in, not summoned as part of the guardian activation. This doesn't stop what you described though. What stops it is this from the commander special rule:
"If the test is passed then all three formations may take an engage action." So the avatar is taking an engage action too and an fm can't take 2 actions in a single turn. There.

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ok; thanks (o:

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Let there be code.

Ooh, love the army!

As to the newer question you would choose whether to deploy the Avatar or not at the start of each turn, rather than a particular action.

The Avatar can only initiate a single assault in a turn (on his own or combined). However in assaults other friendly formations within 15cm can also fight as supporting attacks (assuming neither main combatant formation has been totally wiped out – if it has the other wins with no support attacks).

Positioned well the Avatar can indeed attack in two assaults in turn. Three, four, five, or more, even. This is quite important to Eldar tactics of the ‘rolling assualt’ and the Warlock titan in particular can make a mess of the enemy if it gets to fight multiple times.

Those are really pretty miniatures, those are.

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My Trade Thread

Good looking minis !!! Welcome to the show !

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