You are absolutely correct there - I don't know about L4, but as far as I was concerned this was purely a fun idea; equating the 'grot panzer' with the Italian armoured vehicles of the 1930's and early WWII seemed almost exactly right - they were not just inferior to almost everything else, but were pretty crap generally.

Consider the fate of the L3 'tankettes' at the Battle at Dembeguina Pass in Ethiopia where some 3000 Ethiopian infantry routed about 1000 Eritreans who were supported by ~20 L3/35s. In the process all but one of the 'tankettes' were destroyed by poorly armed infantry. According to the two-man crew of the last Italian tanks, when the Ethiopians pried open the hatches to their tank, they: "Called out 'Friends' and we were not injured." They were among four prisoners delivered to Emperor Haile Selassie at Dessie.

In practice, if we were to develop the concept further, I would be hesitant to provide 'Gunwagon' level stats as a 'grot' tank, because it goes against the whole ethos of hordes of crap tanks.

I'm a bit confused (I must be missing something here....) by the questions of what I plan to give them. I have stats in the reference sheet. Does it not apppear in the download? So far I just copied the stats on the forgeworld site for the tanks:

A big shoota (they get a choice of weapons) and 5+ armour and gave it walker because of the rolling armour rule.

I am going to do a Warband with Grot Panzers ... probably stat them as Buggies ... K.I.S.S. ...

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Dobbsy could you answer my question from the previous page?

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Sorry for the late reply, E&C.

I'm a bit stuck. While I can see your point (it would take little to make the lists the same) at this point I see no real over lap with the two lists, apart from the mega grot. One is a walking-stompin' type list, the other is a fast moving, armoured/mechanised ramshackle-spearhead type list. The other problem I have is I like the afrika-korps idea and (G)Rommel as the focus of it. If I blend my list into yours I'll essentially have no list and I can see that I'll most likely lose my drive as it'll then be your list.

Can both lists not co-exist?

They certainly have their own niches. How many people are really interested in playing all Grot armies when it comes down to it, though? It's a classic case of "divided we fall". However, E&Cs stated aim is to make a fun army, not neccessarily a competative one. Is yours the same Dobbsy, or are you trying to make this army viable for tournament play? If both are for-fun lists, less playtesting would be required.

There's also the fact that certain units, particularly Grot Tanks, Mega tanks, and Mega Armored Grots, should idealy be standardized regardless.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

My army list is:
Grots
Grot Tanks
Stompy Stuff

Your army list is:
Grots
Grot Tanks
Some new special rules

The overlap is considerable.


They can, but only one is destined to be in a printed supplement.

It's entirely your choice whether or not to participate.


Agreed.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Mmmyeah, I don't think that's a real issue here as I just don't think there's that many grot players to be concerned about it, and if there are, then they get a choice. Just like Marine armies. <shrug> I can't see why folks should be forced to play only one list of a specific race.


I'm not sure that's his aim given he's putting his into a supplement. But, hey, If anyone's crazy enough to take a grot army to a tournament I'm happy to let them. My lists will always be for tournament unless I mark them as alt/fan lists. This list can be both IMO. Heck anything Grot can be.


I agree. I don't see the tanks in the version of the Sun-Tzork list I have, however. Is there a new version floating around? Ok I see a new version in the clash of titans supp thread now. Wouldn't have guessed grots would be considered titans LOL! Anyhow, I wrote my list specifically differently to the Sun-Tzork list I had just so it wouldn't clash.


Not sure that is a concrete argument as you couldn't stop me putting it in a supp if I wanted, but it's all good! This list wasn't specifically written to go in a supplement, it was written to let people play grots in tanks. Not saying it can't though. Is your supp about just grots? If you would like to focus your list on stompy stuff and let me focus on the rolling stuff then we can work together, or separately. Are you happy to do that? I'd be cool with it either way.

Nope, it is about Greenskins in general, versus the Imperium, and will feature 5 Greenskin lists:

- Gargant Bigmob list
- Stompy Ork list
- Speed Freaks list
- Blood Axe Commandos list
- Grots list


If anything, the Grot list in the supplement will be losing the bigger Stompy things and focusing more on the Grot tanks.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

So are you saying there's no point developing my list...? You won't consider a compromise?

I'm saying your list largely duplicates my list, it doesn't offer all that much that's new or different.

I also invited you to submit ideas for the Sun Tzork list so that ideas can be shared (Compromise).
You might even end up prime developer of it in time, as I've got a lot on my plate writing the rest of the supplement.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yeah, as I mentioned, at the time I wrote my list I only had an old version of your list that had no tanks so I figured it would be no clash and I like the Rommel theme so...


Ok that's unexpected. How/when might that happen do you think?

TBH both lists have potential, but it seems they are both quite early in developement, I think combining them would be beneficial overall as, lets face it, grot lists are about as niche as armys get in epic, I dont think there is really enough playtest capacity to truely develop two.

Further, it is entirely possible to have both Sun Tzork and Grommel in there, each as 0-1 mutually exclusive supreme commanders. Ork lists are naturally very flexible, so its not impossible to make a grot foot hoard or a grot tank hoard from the same list.