Comments overall:

I don't really like the Vendetta option on the Storm Troopers either. I think that upgrade should help to define the Drop Coys.

Tauros Squadron: Described as "4 Tauros or Venator, or any combination of the two. May Replace any Tauros for a Venator." Cut the second sentence.

Drop Sentinels: These appear to have far more utility as upgrades than as Support. Why then are they worth more as support (150 vs. 100)?

The balance between Tauros, Drop Sentinel Upgrades, and Drop Sentinel Support is odd. The Tauros are faster, better armed (if not MW armed) and better FF, and retain Scout, for the same price as 4 scoutless Sentinels with a very short ranged MW. I don't think the Support is worth more than 100pt base. That would also line it up with the cost of the upgrade. The extra formation and ability to keep AT fire off the Coys isn't worth 50pt IMO.

The only reason I can see to take the Support Sentinels would be with Sky Talons to accompany a mounted company. Are they even strictly neccessary?

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

So, Honda's gone AWOL again (Not logged in in more than two months).

Perhaps a different sub-champion should be considered (Or Rug could take over the list personally).

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

No.... Honda is having virus issues with his computer. He was seriously hacked. Give him a break.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I didn't know that, or forgot it if I did. I'll give it another month before poking again.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I played a game with the Eysians last week and agree with some of what you are saying. Vendettas could be only allowed for the core formations as a means of spicing them up - at least that would make them worth the extra 10 points (having that choice, that is).

The point value for the upgrade is all chewed up and IMO the Drop Sentinels should be the same price. With that said, 150 points is a floor for the formation. They really are useful formations and I'm afraid a further drop in points will cause spamming issues. The army is already on the border of hyper-activation, mitigated only by their lousy armor and lack of AVs/WEs. Getting back on the Sentinels though, the terrible range on the MW is balanced out by their teleporting ability and ability to firefight/support with MWs. I have oft sustained with these formations - 4 units at MW4+ scares people.

Drop Sentinels in Sky Talons are a great combo. Good formation that played well in the two games I've tried them in.

Tauros... I'm not convinced they are worth their points, but I've only played with them twice. One game they just sucked. The other game they did okay; I actually got to utilize their ignore cover function for a whole die roll. Woooooooo! What my big problem is with is the balance between the Tauros and Venator. The ONLY reason I played the Tauros was to test the units. If I had to choose, I would always pick the Venators, hands down. That leaves you with three options:
1. Decrease the price of the Tauros - IMO a bad idea because of spamming concerns
2. Increase the price of the Venator - 10 or 15 points more per unit
3. Change the armament or armor of the Tauros to make it more attractive relative to the Venator.

Problems with the Mortar still exist. Never really addressed, unfortunately.
Support Sentinels (or the lack thereof) are still annoying.
These two problems remove all indirect fire from the army which leaves a hole. Both these changes were done for the worse. I had proposed a support formation that included both these units, but the suggestion was declined because it didn't match the latest book. A terrible reason, if you ask me. There is NEVER going to be another variant Elysian list, so the only place to put these units in is this list.

Punisher cannons on the Vultures are wicked. Played those twice too. Once was against a heavy AV army and unfortunately they were of limited use. But against the Chaos army fielded by MNB last week, it was downright nasty. A specialized unit that is downright terrifying if it can get infantry in its crosshairs. IF.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

No big deal. Of course if he doesn't add the Support Sentinels back in I'll be out here chanting "BURN HIM!"

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Actually, the virus I was down with led to bacterial pneumonia...since this has been my second tour of duty (2007). Running in sub-freezing temperatures is no longer on my workout menu. Also I'll be lining myself up with the P vaccine to help deflect any future opportunities.

It's also crazy here at work.

I will start looking at all the comments to refresh myself with where we are in regards to updating the list. However, I am not ready to commit to a date yet as there's just a lot of Real Life (tm) going on right now.

More later and it's good to be back, sorta.

Cheers,

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Remember Taros? We do.

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Oh, that's what it was. It was Krone that had the computer virus, Honda that had the life threatening virus. I get all you sickies mixed up.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

POKE.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

*assists in poking*

Any objections that i include the Elysians in the Epic: Maelstrom supplement?
It will feature Red Corsairs, Crimson Bondsmen, Salamanders and Elysian Drop Troops if all things go well.

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We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

I am generally opposed to PDP (public displays of poking). However, I have PM'd Jim in the hope that he answers.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Another week gone. I'm not convinced he's going to be back in a timely manner.

Perhaps a secondary sub-champion should be appointed until he returns, lest the list begin to suffer from Tau/Tyranid Syndrome.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Ok, keep your pants on. There's a ton of Real Life (tm) going on right now, not the least of which is an acquisition of the company I work for last week, with the results yet to be determined.

As a target, it looks like I will have the Memorial Day weekend to work on the list as I'll be sitting at home watching the pneumonia vaccine I take on Friday kick my butt.

So, sorry to be blunt but there are a lot of very important things going on that are not game related. Sorry, that's how RL works sometimes. Also, it's not that I don't care about the Elysians anymore, I am still very passionate about them, they are my faves (both 40K and in Epic)...and I think I've already proved that if I do not intend to drive a list, I have no compunction about providing a path for succession.

I am not entertaining that idea. I will get this work done, you will just have to be patient a little while longer.

Honda Out

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Remember Taros? We do.

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Just so that everyone is aware, the after effects of the vaccine weren't too bad, so I am on task.

Also, I've re-read the entire thread again to get current.

Expected changes:

1. Adding the one plasma gun per two infantry stands, same plasma gun stats as STs

2. Cyclops at the BL stats 75 pts, 3 units, 20cm move, LV, Ar 6+, CC 3+, FF -, Range 15 cm, AP4+/AT4+

3. Removing Vendetta upgrade from Storm Troopers

4. Leaving Valk/Vendetta upgrades on Drop companies

5. Tauros & Venator to get Scout (if it's not there already)

6. Tauros to get Heavy Flamer, AP4+, Ignores Cover, FF4+

7. Will look at mortars and make sure they are consistent with published stats (2 x AP5+, 30 cm, Indirect). Is everyone in agreement that 3 units for 50 pts is what the upgrade should be?

8. Still thinking about the proposed Valk/Vendetta costs reductions. Not sure they will make it this go around.

9. Will add the Marauder Bomber

So that's the task list I am currently working from.

As far as games goes, I had gotten three in before things got all squishy, not enough games to come to any super solid conclusions on the new units (other than the Punisher Vultures are effective). No testing with the Tauros/Venators yet. Did add Sentinels to the DTCs and I thought that rather worked for what I wanted them to accomplish. Mortars at the above stats were meh, but need more testing.

So of the above comments may seem a little vague as the laptop that had the list on it is not responding, but I'll recover that.

_________________
Remember Taros? We do.

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I did get in 2 games using the Tauros Venators (Lascannon variant), and am still unsure as to why anyone would take the Multilaser variant. Their speed seemed to make them almost ridiculous, although the small formation size made it a waste for the enemy to target them with anything significant.

As for the mortars, while making them 3 for 50 will help, the problem is they're still facing off against two other units at roughly the same points cost: the Fire Support teams and the snipers (Hardened Veterans, I think you called them) A separate support formation would still be very beneficial for the mortar teams, and provide some more flexibility.