OK I am confused

I thought this list was to represent the Grey Knights - An order that has a high esteem of itself and is dedicated to fighting Chaos like the hammer of righteousness, not delving into the areas of subterfuge, backstabbing and assassination.

I also thought Lord I was going to do all the Ordo items and incorporate the Grey Knights and this list would be Grey Knights as they appear as a force. If that is the case, it would be Lord I's force that would call on the services of the Assassins and not the Grey Knights - have things changed so much that the Grey Knights have lowered themselves to this tactic?

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I just took a quick squiz at the list - assassins are not needed in this list.

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fattdex

You able to do a Thursday night sometime in the near future? Happy to take these guys for a spin either as a player or opponent.

Thursday 14th and 28th are our next scheduled wargame nights. Let me know

Cheers.....

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The assassins are in the new codex in full - as well as dizzying options on putting together inquisitorial henchmen units for a 40k army full of henchmen as troops - but as I originally stated somewhere up there, I didnt put them in the army list as I don't think that detailing the inquisitorial henchmen/agents aspect was the important part (just adds clutter in this instance).

Yessir I will be there, would be good if someone else would like to take them for a spin.

Use Assassins like the Eldar Avatar with the Inquisitor as the summoning focus.

But i agree: The focus of this list should be the Grey Knights. Not the Inquisition part.

BTW; I can't open the file if i download it.

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froggy: perhaps you could explain to me what is righteous and noble about the standard grey knight tactic of "drop in and murder everyone" that is not equally present in the evesor "drop in and murder everyone" tactic? or is it just that marines are great? :P

i get that this is supposed to be a grey knight army, and i support that. but if it's going to include the inquisitional elements present in the new codex, then its gotta include the inquisitional elements present in the codex. that includes assassins, and "an assassin is just an imperial guard sniper with an invulnerable save" will not cut it for me.

theres no real need to include all the different options in the inquisitorial henchmen unit, any more than there is in a marine or imperial guard unit. but while the death cult assassins are part of that unit, the temple assassins act alone and seperately. they should be a seperate formation.

or, failing that, the inquisition options should be dropped from the list entirely. perhaps that would be the better option. but if they are going to be in both lists, i really want them to be good and representative of how an assassin acts in the fluff.

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BlackLegion- that would be cool but I may be visited by the ordos hereticus if I added more special rules
I tied downloading and loading the file from pdfcast - no probs on my computer perhaps your Adobe Acrobat needs an update?

Jag- Possibly it's a 'can't see the forest for the 6mm scale trees' situation with assassins here- yeah they are kickass at skirmish level games, but even there they are likely to get one good shot off then be murdered.
Thinking along those lines, given an engagement in epic is meant to represent a whole 40k game, perhaps they could go in as a character upgrade with a one shot, 30cm MW sniper weapon? I'm not sure what that would cost though and that may want to be one per formation.

Actually in the Codex you can only have ONE Squad of Henchmen PER Inquisitor. The Squad has 3-12 Henchmen which would translate to 2-3 units worth.

So it's something like a bigger Space Marine Command Squad with a Captain.

Only one special character can make Henchmen Troop choices which allows a greater number of squads.

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Well then there is Lord I's list to accompany your needs. fattdex obviously had a goal and I think he has produced something very much in line with what he set out to do. For that you cannot fault him. He never set out to make a list that JTG wanted, he set out to make a Grey Knights list. There was an agreement that Lord I was meant to do the Inquisitorial lists. Therefore I suggest that you help kick Lord I into action to start producing a playable list that will represent the other form of list that I think you are looking for.

From this point, I think fattdex needs to concentrate on what works in the list, what can be abused, and balancing it from there. He has the base, now he needs to take it from there. If that means a later addition of an assassin, then so be it, however for now it appears to have a design that does not attempt to capture the kitchen sink.

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Yeah, but you can take coetaz to make it an all henchmen army, you're allowed to use named characters rules as proxies for your own character invention in games, etc etc etc. All codexes are using named characters to 'unlock' all XYZ armies these days. Not worth locking into just that- otherwise you would also be locked into taking small lots of a lot of other items in a lot of lists too.

Yes but it's STILL a special character you need to unlock an UNCOMMON feature.
So a Grey Knight army with a large Inquisitorial Henchmen detachment is a rare sight.

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the whole idea behind the "disappears after one activation" rule is supposed to represent the "gets one good shot off" thing

an assassin should represent something pretty much peerless in the 40k universe. they are the absolute ultimate sanction in the imperial arsenal. for example, while pretty much any inquisitor worth his salt can inflict exterminatus upon an entire planet (although they'll face censur afterwards no doubt) it takes the high lords of terra themselves to authorise the use of a single assassin.

an assassin should be a virtually assured death sentence for its target. against anything short of a war-engine level character (ie: ctan, avatar, greater daemon) an assassin should pretty much wipe the floor with them.
epic finally provides a scale of conflict where an assassin can have an impact without dominating the game. a game where the strategy and command and control elements allow for the possibility of an assassins deployment to make sense and have a suitable impact, without turning the game into an assassin-off

i admit to having a bias when it comes to assassins. their presentation has remained my single largest complaint in 3 editions of 40k and a large part of why i didnt play 3rd ed.

but these are the biggest, most awesome, dangerous characters that arent named special characters, in the entire universe. they should be at least as capable of &!^@#slapping something across the table (or atleast inspiring as much terror) as a greater daemon is. they deserve their own statline. if thats not something that the grey knight list can accomodate, thats fine, it is a grey knight list afterall, but it should stop trying to be "grey knights and friends" if that is the case. honestly, as i said, thats probably the better option. the henchmen, as currently stands, dont really seem to serve a purpose beyond cheap activation-fodder.

frogbear: i agree its more Lord I's domain. and of the two lists, that would be the one i am more keen on, but if these lists are supposed to exist in synch, with same named units statted the same, I'm gonna put these suggestions to anyone who puts officio assets in their list. if fattdex is building a a grey knights list, and not a "codex: grey knights" list, then he should probably drop the inquisitors entirely. if he's building a list to represent the entire new codex, then assassins need to be included, its not a kitchen sink situation if you're building a kitchen in the first place.
plus, he did call for opinions and brainstorming on the subject.

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Agree to disagree there Black Legion- concessions need to be made to the organization of units for gaming at an epic armageddon level.

Jag- We'll wait a while and see what other opinions come up about assassins, and further playtests will show whether they should make an appearance or not. But by your rationale I need to have an entry for each of the four assassin types, I may as well have stats for jokaero and servitors and deathcult assassins and different ordos inquisitors as well- but focusing on that level of detail of the inquisition is not what this particular army list is about. I'm unapologetic about the fact that the Inquisitorial units are 1) in the list to be used as either cheap units or cannon fodder- they are a counter weight to the more expensive Grey Knights troops by design, in this army list and 2) light on upgrade options- they are not meant to be used as extremely versatile options, or else it would be attractive to try build a whole army around them. (hey you could build a whole army of land raiders if you want to but you might not win)

Sure but i rather see an Inquisitor with its ca 2 unit Henchmen Retinue as an Upgrade then as a formation of its own.

Same for Purifier Squads. Fluff says thett here are a maximum of 40 Purifier Knights in the whole Chapter. More would indicate some rare major daemonic incursion to come.

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Yeah mate but you can also have 60 purifiers in a 40k army with Crowe. Gotta be a little more malleable (almost pun intended)
This is epic- we have warlord titans- who is to say you're not playing a rare major daemonic incursion!