My suggestion from long ago was to make the Stormtroopers more expensive. In this particular list it makes sense. The points are simply a function of balance and -as long as they aren't too far out of whack- the cost of a formation can vary from list to list.

Honda didn't like that and left it as it was. Ergo, the balance problem. Bump those bad boys to 400 and the problems go away.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Disagreed; I think all that would do is stop peole taking Storm Troopers too. They're not worth more just because the core formations are overpriced.

A company of 10 units with 15cm range guns that can teleport may well be worth 200pts, but take away teleport and it's probably only worth 125pts, meaning to account for that without needing to touch core formation costs the valkyies upgrade can be made cheaper, simples.

I mean, would terminators still be worth 350pts in a list where they can't teleport or use transport aircraft? Of course not.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

It would be nice if core Air Cav formations were viable...

That's what Vanaheim's there for. It doesn't have some of the toys (Tauros, Punisher Vulture) the Elysians do, but they're a more conservative list overall, and do a good job at their core competancy. That is to say, they have lots of Valks, and lots of troops.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I thought E&C just wanted the upgrades to be cheaper,

ie the valkyries of a drop company shouldn't cost the same as those from a ST company since with a drop company you are loosing the teleport ability.

So something like, 200 for the core formation +100 for 4 valks, +150 for vends

Correct.

It is simply absurd to price the Valkyries and Vendettas at a price where they will never be selected (other than for storm troopers).

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

That is never going to happen because you have 200pt core formations available.

Try building a few lists, if you're short on support slots I'd be very surprised.


So kill the Valkyries/Vendettas upgrade choice and make a new larger core formation that has Valkyries.

For example:

Elysian Airborne Company
9 Elysian Infantry units, 1 Elysian Command unit, and 5 Valkyries - 350 points
(The formation may swap its Valkyries for Vendettas for 100 points)


'Cos teleport with a 200pt Guard foration that has CC5+ / FF5+ is pretty great!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I can't see the idea of adding some upgrades to an overpriced (Once you add Valkyries or Vendettas) core formation as particularly attractive, YMMV, though.

My preferred option is still just to drop the Valkyries upgrade price a bit.

I don't think the balance issues will be so severe as you fear, for all their coolness Valkyries en masse haven't proved a problem with the EUK Vannaheim list (Albeit with larger 400pt core formations, with infantry with heavy bolters). Indeed that list has felt somewhat underpowered, in my games against it.


It may be that not all your infantry companies will want to teleport.

For example I intend to Garrison my Reg HQ with mortars.
I'll likely do the same with an upgraded infantry Co. as my BTS (But not upgraded with V's!) to work in tandem with the Reg HQ in my backfield.

I'll then have at least 2 infantry companies to drop with (Perhaps with some more aggressive upgrades like Snipers and Cyclops units), giving me access to 8+ support slots (Hello Storm Troopers!).


Aye, probably.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Oh yeah, random idea for Honda, re-posted from previous discussion:

"Borrow" the special rule from the EpicUK "Not Elysians, honest!" Vannaheim army list: "You may place fighter formations on CAP instead of starting garrisoned ground formations on Overwatch, if you want to"

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Vannaheim have 30cm range guns, making them worth a bit more when used in an air cav mode, and a larger basic formation size too.

If you don't want the Valkyrie upgrade to be viable then it should just be removed entirely, IMO.

Possibly replace it with a support formation of 7 inf units, 1 commander, 4x Valkyries (With an option to upgrade to Vendettas), for ~275pts. That keeps the core focus on Drop Companies but also allows the basic infantry to ride V's too.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter