*shrug*

Not enough for people to spot how it's never, ever, worthwhile taking Valkyries or Vendettas on the core formations! :-)

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Heh, or the other half dozen other balance issues. But this speaks to my point-

Rug / Honda, I am not trying to be a noodge - just pointing out there is nothing to be gained by saying this list is farther along than it really is.

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

What I would say is that this list is clearly being actively developed and played, something that most of the Experimental lists are not, in general. It also has years of playtesting behind it. That does sound like the list is "In Development" to me.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

But it's really not the same list. You don't have a 20% change in unit types, point changes, formation modifications, and say that the list is anything close to what it was six months ago. It is effectively a new list that has not seen virtually any games.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Eh, it has more of a grounding than most Exp lists. "In Development" seems to fit from a philosophical POV to me, as a statement of intent if nothing else.

I view the "Experimental" tag as being one for very new lists that haven't seen any games (Ever), or old abandoned concept lists (Like Chroma's Cadians). By that metric, the Elysian list belongs in a higher grade of development status, no?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I dunno - I've made my case. I'll leave it up to the AC and the NetERC I guess. They are the ones that have to back it at the end of the day. On the bright side I bought some Dark Realm Miniature 4-wheel buggies that I hope to paint up for the Venators. I will probably play them in March.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Upgrade cost aren't always the cost of a new formation, but they're usually close. Looking at the IG list, Russes are slightly more expensive as a Tank Squadron than in a company (67.7 vs 62.5), while hydras cost 50 points as either way.

Looking at Terminators, who also lose teleport when taking Land Raiders, the LRs are slightly discounted (300 for 4 as an upgrade vs 350 as a formation).

(You could argue that formations should have some sort of 'base' cost just for the activation, but that isn't really the case apart from a few formations like Warhounds or Ork Big/'Uge formations.)

Storm troopers with V's are cheaper/the same cost and are much better (same number of units but with ff4 and an armour save). You cant give V's to upgrades so there is no reason to mount up your core companies that I can see.

Because you're losing teleport, upgrade valks should be cheap enough that the formation as a whole ends up noticeably cheaper than storm troopers with V's.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I'm definitely with E&C on this firstly it seems overpowered but also it smacks of 40kish 'these are our latest IG they are IG but better'. Are elysians that battle-hardened that they get a bonus above any other force?

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Well Iron Discipline is also a hallmark of the Death Korps of Krieg and the Cadian Shock Troops in Wh40k.

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As I said 40kish 'these are the best guard'.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

We tested the krieg list with an iron discipline rule back when we first were writing the list and ultimately decided it was bringing nothing to the game experience. Sometimes you have to kill your darlings.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I think you'd do much better with a foot mounted SC/BTS than with the hugely overpriced V upgrades. Much better to have a rock hardfootfoemation.

yes because
A The Elysians operate in both modes commonly
B drop/teleport armies fundamentally lack tactical complexity


Considering the incredibly cheap core formation cost you are never going to have a problem finding support slots ... So armies will have plenty of those scouting storm trooper formations and no mounted core companies at all, ever, IMO.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter