I broadly agree with Neal.

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48" 40K = 45cm Epic is an effective weapon range conversion, which includes considerations like the difference between a point target and an area target, e.g. a heavy bolter firing at those 3-5 guys, versus a heavy bolter firing at a big area containing 20-30 guys WAY over there.

Assuming the Cyclops is treated like a unit, I think for the purpose of this discussion that the 48" control range in 40K can probably be considered to be roughly equal to formation coherency at Epic scale. It might be argued that it's really farther, but I don't think it's worth dealing with a special rule. Maybe the controller is actually on the other end of the formation. Whatever.

If it is treated as a one-shot weapon/character, then I think it's unique status could justify a range under 45cm rather than the standard conversion.

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Another point on the unit/LV status - mobility. That thing isn't driving into a normal building any time soon. You could make it Mounted as a character, but then you'd have to take it back off.

Agreed, I don't think a special rule is nessesary.

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Give it scout so it can range a little away from the formation on its own. Tada.

Also, on the heavy bolter point, it's 40k that makes an abstraction of its range, not epic.

That's fine for coherency of the unit, but it has a lot of implications past that.

Whether this is problematic would depend on what it can be attached to. Teleporting a Scout ZoC on top of an enemy formation, for example, might not be a desirable effect.

Indeed, the enemy would be forced to either move away, or Engage (And Close Combat!) the Cyclops.

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Running away seems a logical response to a remote bomb teleporting next to you!

Weighing in here so that we don't get too far down the wrong path. So assume the following:

1. It will be an individual unit, not an upgrade to a unit. LV seems the most appropriate as it is vulnerable to rapid firing bolters and such.

2. I prefer Neal's explanation of why it should have CC and FF values. That makes it easy to play and model.

3. No special rules. I don't like them in general and I think the list has as many as it needs.

4. I'd like it to stay in the 25 pts each range vs. more expensive. All the little doodads add up and drop troop companies aren't known for their resilience, so the abilities need to scale to that cost. Considering some of the other options available, I just don't see a one shot weapon carrying more value @ 50 pts each vs. Vets, Mortars, Support stands.

5. In 40K these things are dangerous if allowed to get within range...just like the demo charges. They have the ability to take out a complete formation.

So what's the best way to represent that? The MW4+ is interesting for CC, but the effectiveness drops off rapidly outside of up close and personal. So, is it reasonable for a 25 pt unit add on to have MW CC4+ FF6+?

If not that, what else is viable? (i.e. attractive to take/effective to use)

Good discussion and ideas going on...

Cheers,

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I would say that would be too poor for a 25pt unit.
I'd want CC3+ or even 2+, for 25pts ; I think the stats I posted a few pages back are probably about right for a 25pt LV, though neal suggests 30cm speed so I'd drop the CC rating to 3+ instead of 2+.

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What about no FF, but CC4+ MW and Infiltrate? That'd make a weapon that couldn't take out a formation, but might decapitate it.

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Me neither, really.

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So to paraphrase it's Wh40k rules and stats:

1-3 form a Fast Attack slot in the FOC.
It has the same durability as an Enclosed Sentinel (so LV with a 6+ save) but blows up by any glancing or penetrating hit (so i suggest LV with no save).
It can move within 48" of its operator. It is a Vehilce which means it can move up to 12" in the movement phase (infantry can move 6" and run a further D6" in the shooting phase if they don't shoot).
When it explodes it causes a Battle Cannon hit (Strength 8, Armourpiercing 3, 5" Blast Template) with the expetion that it doesn't half its Strength if a Vehicle under the template isn't directly under the centre.

Stats:

Cyclops Demolition Vehicle
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Light Vehicle 20cm none 2+ -
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Demolition Charge 15cm AP4+/AT4+ one-shot
Notes: Infiltrator, Expendable, Teleport. The Cyclops is removed from play if it uses any attack.

The Demolition Charge as ranged weappn represents the Cyclops racing forward at top speed more or less blind into an enemy formation and exploding.
While it's CC-attack represents a more cautious aproach through the controller who would be able to move the Cyclops to a juicy target to cause maximum damage.

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AP2, IIRC. It's a Terminator killer.

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