Hena

Could I get your preference as the AC on what direction in stats (provided in the 4 options above) you would prefer to see the Achilles tested at?

Thanks in advance

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@GR00V3R: As the Achilles is stupid rare outside the Imperial Fists it would be not a good idea to put it in the standard Space Marine army list.

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2x twin multi meltas, plus a Thunderfire Cannon... yeah, it probably is.

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I would support 3 or 4, simply because its armour is much tougher than a standard land raider in 40k.

It's, conservatively, 5x harder to kill than any other type of land raider. The armour on this thing is incredible.

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And that's why it is regarded as overpowered/stupid even by Wh40k players. But well it has to get close to fortifications and in order to do so it has to survive a stupid amount of enemy fire as fortifications (i'm talking about curtain walls, fortresses, etc) have usually in-build guns to repell any wannabe attacker.

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Frankly, RA 3+ is not unjustified, this thing is tougher to kill than a Monolith.

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Wow that is pretty damn tough! I had no idea.

As much as I want to keep costs down in the IF list, if it is justified with any of the below ideas, I am happy to go with the concensus:

i. RA3+ FF4+ - 4 for 375 points
ii. RA3+ FF3+ - 4 for 400 points

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I'd go with ii.

There are no Landing Craft in the Imperial Fists list, which is a good thing.

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Yes. If they where able to use aircrafts, etc to assault a fortress then there would be no need for a siege

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i disagree. monoliths are still harder to kill. for instance, a monolith cannot ever possibly be killed by glancing hits, this thing can.

it is, however absurd. and a 3+RA is awful. do not want.
if you want to accurately represent its effects, it could be 4+ RA with a special rule that ignores lance

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It would also need a special rule that treats Melta type weapons as AT attacks... and special rules make me a sad werewolf.

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but melta is not a weapon-type that has its own special rules in epic.

and the point is, that this is (like the droppods and greater daemons) one of forgeworlds more absurd and overpowered units, it does not need to be brought to that level of idiocy in epic. a variant weaponloadout on a standard raider should be enough, but if not then just ignoring lance should be entirely decent enough. 3+ RA is too good.

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Actually glancing hits have a -2 on the Vehicle Damage Table. So NO vehicle can be destroyed with a glancing hit (unless it has AP1 and/or Strength D). The best result would be Immobilized. And as the Achilles gains a FURTHER -1 on this table the best you can get is a weapon destroyed result.

If no RA3+ then it should state in the notes that it ignores the armour altering abilities of MW and Lance.

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Why?
It really is tougher to kill than a Necron Monolith.

This thing subtracts 1 from all damage rolled against it, ignores Lance and Melta, and has the maximum armour rating all round (Meaning 90% of anti-tank weapons will only be able to glance it, and that only if they roll a 6 for armour penetration), it certainly deserves the best armour rating of any AV in the game.

As to balance, it's a tank that will cost at least 400 points for a formation of 4, and be a firefight tank in a Space Marine army with no Landing Craft. In no way will it be overpowered.

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