BlackLegion wrote:
Well WYSIWYG IS the problem.
For eyxample the Ironclad Dreadnought. It is a FF Dreadnought where the "generic" AC&PF Dreadnought is a shooty&CC Dreadnought. And that is WHY you can really have one Dreadnought for each specific role:
Shooty = Hellfire Dreadnought (Twin Lascannon&Missile Launcher)
FF = Ironclad Dreadnought (Hurricane Bolter)
CCMW = Furioso Dreadnought (2 x Powerfist)
FFMW = Vulcan Dreadnought (Multi-melta)
Shooty&CC = Generic Dreadnought (AssaultCannon&Powerfist)
Shooty&FF = Siege Dreadnought (Flamers)
And thats only for Dreadnoughts. You could expand this for Infantry and non-Walker Armoured Vehicles (which are faster).
And that for EVERY race in the Wh40k universe.
And for you example with the Thunderhawk.
Strictly speacing it should have 3DC and Armour 5+ but i guess decreasing it to 2DC will put the Armour to 4+RA.
WYSIWYG is only a problem because you assume E:A should be WYSIWYG.
If it where up to me, there would be 3 dreadnought. A shooty one (2 shooty weapons), an assault one (shooty weapon+CC weapon) and a siege one (2 CC weapons), and every model would use one of the three statlines. I don't think the difference between a chainsfist, a powerfist and a siege ram should be relevant in epic. I'd love to have ram or powerdrill equipped dread models in a siege themed army, but I would be happy to use the same statline as any other 2 CC weapon equipped dread. I could do perfectly with only 3 statlines for landraider. Standard, Assault (count as crusader, increased transport capacity and decreased shooting) and possibly support (count as helios, less transport, more firepower). Actually I could even do with only the 2 first. I love having redeemer models but I wouldn't be frustrated to have them count as "Assault land raiders".
I love cool models but the need for the statline to accurately reflect each details is very 28mm minded (and even there, I tend to think it's more of a way to sell more models than anything else really). I don't know (nor care) what to think of WYSIWYG in 40K those days since I didn't play that game in 15 years, but I know that in Epic I think it's mostly rule clutter. And when it come to rules, E:A should refer to the background and translate it as adequately as it can with regards to the gameplay.
40K stats are only useful as to what they may tell us of the intended background, role and ability of the unit.
As a voicy participant in the original discussion to give TH 4+ RA (that's why I chose this example above), I assure you that the 40K statline (FW statline are not official anyway) was way behind in our concern compared to the game play, the intended use of the unit and its depiction in background.
Or else, just make the Warhound plasma blastgun a TK weapon as it should, make the thunderhawk 3DC, 5+ no RA, 30 men capacity, etc... and reprice them accordingly because IT IS AS THEY SHOULD BE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT IS IN 40K.
But really, quite apart from the statline thingy, which as I already stated is a battle I lost many years ago anyway, inspiring the E:A rules mechanisms from the 40K one is just as bad a design principle as we could get.
Edit : (avoiding double post)
BlackLegion wrote:
(...)
Transport aircrafts acting as Skimmers is one more of these issuses which by rationality these units SHOULD be capable of but aren't allowed by the Epic rules.
Sums up our differences of point of view quite nicely really. You call what they are allowed to do in an apocalypse game "Rationality".
Being able to hover in place so as to be able to drop troops quickly is not the same as being able to skim the ground like a wave serpent. I refer to the idea, you refer to the 40K rule set.
I'll let it at that, as I said I understand my way of seeing this is out of fashion, and I don't enjoy casting myself in this grumpy, bitter old timer role one bit. I'll just play my own set of rules, just like many gaming groups already do. After all, I'm not a tournament player, what am I doing outside of the painting forum ?
edit : sorry, I just feel the urge to edit as I see mistakes, typos, missing words...