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NetEA changes - Warhounds

 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:48 pm 
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Morgan Vening wrote:
It was a third. Which is allowed by nearly every other army in the game. Not sure what your point is, here.


Maybe I write bad too? It was 5 activations out of 10 that were allies.

It is not your fault. It is an issue with the list that such an army is a viable choice. It is not a Marine force, it is an allied force.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:19 am 
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Quote:
It is an issue with the list that such an army is a viable choice. It is not a Marine force, it is an allied force.
That in itself is not a problem.

The problem comes when that is the only viable choice.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:45 am 
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On Warhounds, IMHO restricting them to 0-1 singleton (while allowing pairs) is only part of the answer.

As Steve says, where the cost is the same as Predators and the player is given the choice between the two; there is no contest. Raising 25 points does not really change this much. - - 325pts should be considered, or even possibly 350pts, to make the comparison more appropriate.

On ATSKNF the suggestion seems to be only to remove the half BMs section on Assaults - not to repeal the whole lot.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:35 am 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Why is a simple 0-1 for single Warhounds out of the question?

Morgan Vening wrote:
Personally, I'm all for requiring them to be pairs, like the Eldar Revenants. It'd likely show the truer strength/weakness of the Marine army. But if they're going to be individually purchasable as well, I have no issue with this restriction.


I agree with both. Why not have only Warhounds Pairs and leave singles to the AMTL List. Or at least 0-1 on Singles.

Also I think the Point increase is un-needed. Fixing SM units and formations costing is Needed!

Messing with Allies (IN/Titans) is kinda pointless if your issues lay in the Main part of the list.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:44 am 
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Hena wrote:
I think I'll drop the cost upgrade to Warhounds as there is some good arguments against it and less support to it than I thought.


Hena

I disagree. You have not even trialled it.

I do have to say however that if only you applied this type of action to more of the feedback, we would not need so many threads talking about these issues.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:38 am 
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Hena wrote:
The codex list is finished. That means that I will limit the changes to it to minimum unless there is real need. This means that small tweaking for this and that is just not going to happen.


At one time the Chaos list was finished was it not? That has gone through some changes. Why is this list any different?

It has the most play tests and the most use (I am guessing), so I would think the feedback is even more relevant.

Being so adamant against change is not good for the future of the list as it stands. Already you have 'alternatives'. It has already happened. In our group, no-one will play the Marine list - they would rather play the alternatives.

I am sure our group is not alone. How many have to defect to the other lists that they feel are doing the right things before you will take that next step?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:41 am 
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The 50 points this would add to most marines lists would be absorbed by either, dropping the Tac formation to a Dev, Dropping one character or removing a couple of razorbacks. Net effect to list selection? Minimal.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:27 am 
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Arg! My Razorbacks! *sob*


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:33 am 
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Mephiston wrote:
The 50 points this would add to most marines lists would be absorbed by either, dropping the Tac formation to a Dev, Dropping one character or removing a couple of razorbacks. Net effect to list selection? Minimal.

Of course it's minimal, that's self-evident because 50 points is just 1.66% of your army list.
Going from 250 to 275pts was also minimal.

That doesn't mean to say that making them 300 points (For Marines) is the incorrect course of action.
It just means it's a small nudge that results in Warhouds costing more than the (Universally-accepted to be inferior) Predator formation.

As I've said before, that most of the "conservatives" are saying it would just result in them changing a Tactical formation to a Devastator formation just speaks as to how the Tactical Formation is slightly (25pts) overpriced (So that it is mostly only useful in a "meta" role of SC bodyguard, rather than useful in of itself), not that the Warhound is correctly costed.

Tacticals should be amongst the most desirable of Marine formations, and it is a failing of the list that there are less Tactical formations than Warhound Titans in 95% of tournament lists.

I say : Balance out the 25pt increase on Warhounds, with a 25pt reduction on Tactical Marines.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:58 am 
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I know it goes against all established policy for Marines.

Up to 1/3 of an army’s points may be spent on Support formations. Only one Support Formation may be taken per Tactical Detachment.

So, only more base level Marine formations get access to the 'special toys'. Solves most of the issues with well... everything else being talked about, and encourages more use for Tacticals.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:59 am 
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I can imagine the army builds...


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:02 pm 
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I don't think such a radical change (Adopting a core:support system) is warranted.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA changes - Warhounds
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Just to be clear, I meant Support = Aircraft and Titans, not Core = Tactical, Support + everything else.

So if you wanted to take nothing but Terminators, Speeders and Bikes, there'd be no problem. You just couldn't add Titans and Aircraft.

I figured it wouldn't be liked. Just figured something that would affect the ease of purchase that some players find unfluffy.

Morgan Vening


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