What happened to the idea of core and support formations in an IF army?

This would restrict dread formations.

So what? If need be my Tarantulas are the older Epic version, these are the current Forge World version. Boom. Stats justified, everyone knocks off for lunch.

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Yup, you could just need to rename yours "Crewed Tarantulas" or something.

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They're currently called Tarantula MkIs. Admittedly, you need the flavor text to get the explanation of what that means, but there is a clear distinction even now.

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Sort of, but there are still some pretty major disconnects, e.g. Apocrypha w/ 10cm move and IF at 0cm move with otherwise identical stats, but both at 25 points. There's potentially something off, as context is not likely to make up for that kind of difference in mobility.

Neither list has dealt with whether or how Tarantulas can be transported except that the default seems to be they cannot. Since the background fiction specifically references them being transported, a defined call on what is possible in the context of an Epic game battle would be good (and yes, they can be different; I'd just like a determination).

Thunderfire v mobile Tarantula would seem to have many similarities in mobility considerations but they have different move profiles (pure infantry versus inf/mounted/walker). That discrepancy could be resolved or okayed. A comparison on firepower would seem to indicate some discrepancy in costs.

There are a number of other traits the lists have in common which would benefit from some cross-comparison as well - dreadnought formations, Tac and other infantry costs in the face of limited air transport and so on. The lists are very similar. There's no reason not to take advantage of the playtests and commentary from each other.

Are we ok with the Achilles having 2 attacks in FF or is there another solution to the gun stat here?

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Dreads are getting the price increase, no issues there.



I am really trying to keep the army as one main body if at all possible. If it really needs it, then I can break it up into Core + Support. At present there is no real reason to - no doubt I may be proved otherwise



Well Dreads are undercosted so the fix should see a stop to this force. Generally I have no large issue with 17 activations as long as the costings are correct. Over 3 turns, those 17 activations (once again, if correctly costed) should be reduced quite significantly and what was left should be struggling to win the game for you. So let me fix the points up and see what we come out with.



I find garrisoning over-rated. In the example above, you would not garrison more than 4 formations probably as then you run the risk of being hit by barrage templates. Once a general sees 17 activations, placing the objectives on the sides of tables should really see the power of garrisoning reduced to a hindrance rather than a gain.



I am really trying to stay away from the tiered system and the 0-1 restriction for this list. If there was a 0-1, most people would always take 1 right? Let's see if a price increase will fix this issue. If not, then this is a possible solution, as is increasing the points yet again.

Edit: 250 point dreads may still leave Devs and Tacticals marines wanting. Although Tacs (and to a point Devs) have more firepower, the Dread's 3+ armour and AV status is a real boon. The only things the Tacts and Devs have going for them are upgrade options, and Tacts have increased numbers. Hmmm. I will get the list out after work and see if it is still an issue with list builds...

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Since Multimeltas don't give an extra attack it would technically have only one FF attack no matter how many multimeltas it has.

I would say:

Space Marine Land Raider Archilles
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 25cm 4+ 6+ 3+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Thunderfire Cannon 60cm 2 x AP4+/AT6+ Disrupt or Ignore Cover
2 x Twin Multi-melta 15cm MW4+ Macro-weapon
and Small Arms Macro-weapon

Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour. The Multi-meltas can shoot and confer the macro-weapon ability to the unit's firefight value..

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Thanks all

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I have updated the first page with the most recent revision (V0.4) with everything discussed

- The Terminator special rule is gone - even with me kicking and screaming
- Predators are gone - yep, there I am, still kicking and screaming
- Castellans have been removed - playtest without these as they can be added as an upgrade at a later stage
- Warhounds have been removed
- Land Raiders have been swapped with Achilles

...and a whole other raft of changes. I just hope I have not missed anything.

The list will allow for any neat stuff to come from FW in the near future I am guessing. In the meantime, how does it look? Is it competitive? Is it balanced?

I am going to see if I can make some nasty lists up to see if it is broken in any area.

Tiny-Tim: I would appreciate if you also do me the honour of an army you would take with this list again.

Thanks in advance

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I'll try and put something together later on today.

Hmm. Well if this list should have a Defense focus then Castellan Missiles aren't needed. Why would you shoot Ignore Cover weapons at an advancing enemy? If you would attack a fortified position then Castellans are useful. As this is a defence they aren't needed.
Land Raider Achilles top as it seems to be designed to attack fortifications, not to defend them.

A Defence List needs:
- Fortifications (Bastions, Firebases, Defence Lines (not trenches!), Minefields, etc)
- Units which can hold ground and/or have high firepower to repell attackers (Tarantulas, Thunderfire Cannons).
- Some high mobility units to react rapidly to breaches in the defence (Bikes, Land Speeders and Predators).

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Well, I've had another play with this list and I will admit to have problems with how I would play it. So below is my revised list:

Whirlwinds + Hunter
Scouts
Terminators + Captain
Terminators + Chaplain
Terminators + Chaplain
Land Raiders
Land Raiders
Thunderbolts
Thunderbolts
Thunderbolts

I would look to hold my Blitz with the Whirlwinds surrounded by the scouts. Both formations of Land Raiders would support each other and advance towards objectives. Terminators would be a turn one BTS gambit and then head for the enemy Blitz. Thunderbolts are to attack small formations and bring the activation count up. The big concern for this list is that the Land Raiders are 'quite' weak and certainly vulnerable to CC engagements. These after testing might be changed to Tacticals with Hunters or more Scouts with added Dreadnoughts for BM placement.

Whilst there are lots of interesting little bits and pieces for this list I would only really consider the sentry guns or platforms and these would then be to increase my activations more than anything else.

Hope this helps guys. I'll be testing Emperors Children when I have some time.

Damn. That is definately less troops than I was expecting. Thanks Tiny-Tim.

If the above is the type of competitive list that comes from this force, then I am not happy with the list at all. I want an INF list supported by everything Tiny-Tim has taken above which seems to have worked the other way. I guess that I am just not interested in making a list that can be done with any other - what's the point?

I think that a lot of my ideas would have helped an INF list (mixed formations, veteran idea, etc), yet we are quick to say 'no' it seems. Well this is what happens, you get a vanilla marine list by another name.

I guess I am just a little 'over it' at the moment and maybe I just need to give it a break.

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