What are you looking for to make it "chaosy"?

Neal, one things I liked about Chaos armies under the rules in SM2/TL Renegades is that a well built well played Chaos army could force you to play 3 totally different games at once, for example a Khorne/Nurgle/CSM Army would have you fighting a duck and cover battle against Khornite War machines and Titans, a run and gun battle to stay out of CC with the Nurgle force and a brutal close assault battle With his CSMs. These lists lack that flavor which is something I always associated with Chaos armies.

That is why I was thinking along the lines of what I wrote earlier about a Chaos Allies part fo the force pulled from other lists. The problem with that is that I see that the lists are self balanced, not cross balanced so pulling in an allied army would toss balance all to hell.

_________________
MadMagician
Epic Tyranids

I can't say that I ever had that experience with SM/TL, so I'm not sure I can help you out here.

If I understand, you're looking for some tough, shooty elements (the daemon engines/titans), a channeling/area control nurgle forces and some fairly fast Khorne CC elements. Is that correct? If so, it's possible to all those elements with the Black Legion and the L&D list both.

Nurgle wave:
2x CSM nurgle retinue, pact, icon

Fast Khorne:
CSM khorne retinue, berzerkers, rhinos
Khorne bikes (juggers), pact
Khorne Termies, pact

War Engines/firepower:
Khorne Decimator
Khorne Death Wheel

12 lesser daemons

2500 points, 7 formations.

Garrison Nurgle Retinues. Summon daemons early for meat shields and grind forward to control territory. The Decimator is probably better to support the Nurgle garrisons, so you might switch factions on that.

Fast Khorne stuff can go together on one flank for the hammer in a hammer/anvil strategy, or for the strong flank in a denied flank strategy (with the Decimator anchoring the weak flank). For a pincer you could split up all the fast Khorne stuff with some on one end and one on the other.

The Deathwheel is fast and can harass or can reinforce anything needed to keep one of the above strategies working. Teleport the Termies in when something is vulnerable to a heavy CC assault and/or fill in your battle line to keep the strategy working.

Plenty left to add AA (Obliterators with the Nurgle formations would be good), upgrade the war engines or add more of something else you like (like more firepower WEs, or an armor formation of Land Raiders [using khorne daemon engines to "count as" LRs for visual style]. So, say 2 Obliterators (150), bump the Decimator to another Death Wheel (50) and 4 Land Raider/Khorne Engines (300) brings you in at 3000 points, 8 formations.


For L&D, the Nurgle wave would be Covens with big mutants, spawn and maybe some daemons. Fast Khorne stuff would be covens of mutants in transport and some Rough Riders (Juggers if you prefer). Khorne daemon engines and LoB for tough, shooty stuff. 2 of each coven, plus rough riders plus the daemon engines should be ~2000 points, so there's lots of room for AA and customization.

==

Or, I may be completely misunderstanding you.

Playing by balancing a forces weaknesses with their strengths has provided the most satisfying experiences for me. The line above makes me think you want a force that is good in everything. While many strive to make a force that can take on all-comers, there is always going to be a weakness to exploit somewhere. Try playing some of the lists and see how you go. I think that you cannot always gain a feel from a force just by looking at a list - there is alot to be learned by playing a force.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Frog, I did some more reading around and found your chaos squat list and TBH it is quite compelling so far, keep it up, you may have won me over !

_________________
MadMagician
Epic Tyranids

Give the other Chaos Lists a go. If anything, they are all starving for some feedback and attention. I would recommend reading through them and then commenting on what you think is missing. That way the AC can look into it and reply.

Note that the Cultist list will be very specific so they may not hold what you are looking for. Then there are the Red Corsairs, as well as the most recent Bloody Hand. It is not like Chaos is short on lists at this time, just short on support. Even you mentioning the Chaos Squats has made me pipe up and now go off to see that thread, so even a small note is usually enough to get a ball rolling somewhere.

Cheers dude for keeping Chaos forces going on the threads

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

indeed. we yearn for feedback. it is like candy for us. sweet sweet candy.

in my research wanderings, it seems there was an (apparently aborted) daemon list a ways back.
i was considering trying to resurrect/restart the project after i got a bit further into the Bloody Hand list development. cause daemons are cool.

in the meantime, a majority of the old chaos stuff seems to be found in the LatD list, just not the daemon command structure, plus of course most of the daemons are back of the book units.

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

One of the things that I am not big on in LaTD is the concept of "summoning" for the Daemons. What purpose does this serve, is it a balance issue? could a subset of my idea work as a "daemon army" if it were limited in scope to lessen the variety of units?

_________________
MadMagician
Epic Tyranids

I like the current Daemon Army list that exists. It was made by Chroma

Take a look at it. All it needs are some datafaxes for some missing units however these can be designed while we wait for Chroma

He has some interesting special rules in how the Daemons act within the battle.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

where is it? i heard references to it, but couldnt find the actual list anywhere, figured it must have died in the shuffle

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~

Found it here

viewtopic.php?f=82&t=15012

_________________
MadMagician
Epic Tyranids

i used to think the same as you, a lot of the "flavor" of the SM era is gone. remember all the special rules orcs use to have? but in the end a lot of units, say cauldron of blood (flame template) and brass scorpion (short range attacks) function in a similar fashion, so lumping them into a generic "demon engine" catagory is not that bad.
that said, now that i am getting out my old chaos stuff, there are some units that do not seem to be in any lists. primarchs?
couldn't each god have there own list similar to the one eldar list that has the avatar as a core formation? for nurgle, for example, have core units being plague marines, plague bearers, and 0-1 great unclean one. not to bring up past discussions, but i read a thread where some were unhappy about not getting to use greater demons very often, and this could be a way to remedy that.

Primarch stats have been made up.

The older stats are WE however

I have made an INF Angron stats:

ANGRON (Post Heresy)
Replace a Daemon Prince unit with Angron +75 points (note that the Daemon Prince unit in the World Eater list is 100 points)

Infantry 30cm 4+ 2+ 5+
Angron’s Black Blade Base Contact Assault Weapons MW, Extra attack (+3)
Roar of Hate (15cm) Small Arms
Notes: Daemonic Pact, Fearless, Inspiring, Invulnerable Save, Jump Packs, Reinforced
Armour, Supreme Commander, Teleport.

Armour Save could even be 3+ in hindsight...

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Madmagician, you should look closer at the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Thousand Sons and Death Guard lists. They are hardly flavorless, rather they all are concentrated pills of flavor for each of the four chaos gods... They each play quite differently and have many unique and "chaosy" units in them.