Hey there's no need to convince me of stuff like that. 80% of the upgrade choices in the Steel Legion list aren't worth taking in tournaments either. :-)

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See above. "Go heavy or go home" should be the motto. Both work fine once you implement that thought process.


Buggies get a bad rep, imho. They are flexible, with multi-purpose ranged shots, 5+CC, 5+FF and the longest range of the KoS units. The range makes them useful for soaking suppression or "stretching" range. As far as I'm concerned, an optimized "Skorcha mob" KoS should always have a few Buggies so they can use those tricks.


These are extremely useful in Stormboyz formations. Ranged fire for placing BMs and pop-up from behind terrain goes a long way towards helping them offset the vulnerability to AT fire. I've occasionally seem people put them in front of a mechanized warband for the 4+ armor saves (and since the formation is already vulnerable to both AP and AT, the LV status does not matter). Occasionally, I've seen pure-Kopta Blitz Brigades, but I don't recall ever seeming them be particularly effective.


I admit the basic ork list has little use for these.

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My personal opinion on the least-useful unit would probably be the Gunwagon. They are used primarily as an oddboy delivery system. Unfortunately, after many conversations about possible improvements, none seem promising because they all introduce new balance issues.

I figure it's probably better to add a Deffkopta or two to optimise a Skorcha mob, as it has a 4+ save.

So Buggies are generally only useful to a Skorcha mob if you can't find the spare 35pts for a Deffkopta upgrade, as far as I'm concerned (The only exception being when engaging with the Skorcha mob itself you can ram a few units with buggies to drop FF to CC stats).


I like what EpicUK did with these, giving them their own formation.


What's wrong with making them 25pts each?

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Buggies and skorchas - Skorcha are clearly superior. Yes take one or two in a skorcha formation, but otherwise its all skorchas, all the time. In fact the ratios are worse than gunwagons.



Well, that still means 1 in 4 is a gun wagon. You know, 2 flak, 1 oddboy, 1 gun wagon. Thats not to bad

I like to use 3 flak and 1 Oddboy as bait, as the opponent knows it's not as good as 2/1/1 so they'll try and put a BM on it, hopefully over-extending themselves.

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Koptas cost between 40% and 75% more per unit, depending on Big/Uge discounts on Buggies. So, yeah, of course they are better.


They are better than any of the 25 point choices in the list.


Wow. You're getting into some serious meta-gaming at that point.

*shrug*

I've been running one 2/1/1 formation and one 3/1 formation in my army, and people do seem to chase after the 3/1 formation first as they know that surpressing it reduces its range greatly.

It must be said, that I've played a total of 6 games with Orks so far.

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I still think Skorchas should be dropped down to FF5+ to balance them with the other two KOS units... the AP4+, Ignore Cover shot is still pretty good.

Death Kopta's rock though! 4+ save in an ork army?!

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They sure do!

Stormboyz and Deth Koptas are my usual "leading element" in most of my Ork armies.

so basically the only redeeming quality for most of the units is getting to place a blast marker? still not very attractive
tweaking some of the stats (like the fore mentioned skorcha stats) would go a long way to making some of the units better. most of them aren't horrible (except the battlefortress) they just need a minor tweak.

Fortresses are very respectable choice in an army containing other more threatening warengines such as gargants. Pull off an assault with a normal warband transported in two gunfortresses and you have a hairy monster right there. You do need the supa stompas and gargants to keep your opponent busy though.

No, it wouldn't be internally balanced, because it has a bunch of useless units. Or, at least, that's how I've always interpreted internal balance - units are of roughly equivalent value for their points.

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Vole- less crappy does not equal respectable
Sim. Knave- sure it would be balanced, as proven with battlefortress, kommados, gun wagons, and buggies

ok,, got a question guys.. what is a 2/2/1 formation??