I know, people could count-as arm-mounted Turbolasers as Laser Blasters, but they don't want that either.

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Yes. Only problems are carapace mounted Volcano Cannons and Gatling Blasters and arm mounted missiles.

And for people who complain that under the Wh40k restirctions the support Reaver (2 BP arms and CLP) isn't valid anymore: In Titan Legion/SM2nd the Reaver wasn't allowed to take the CLP/FCT anyway.

There where several Warlord only weapons:
Carapace Landing Pad, Carapace Multi-Lasers, Corvus Assault Pod, Deathstrike Cannon, Fire Control Centre, Plasma Cannon and Plasma Destructor,

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They're not worth 50pts.

In the current unrestricted slots system, they're worth 35.

But nobody likes them being worth what they're actually worth.

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If at 35pts how about some small 15pts upgrade? Rubble Claws (treat dangerous terrain as non-dangerous) or something? So it evens out to no wasted points.

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BL you forgot, arm mount TLD. My biggest beef with the 40k mounts is that you basically tell everyone who buys a reaver from GW they have to do counts as if they play the AMTL list but if they use the official rules suddenly arm mounted TLD are fine. Given what little support GW has for epic, I think it's bad form to do that.

I'm not opposed to 15 point upgrades, but there would need to be more than one upgrade since they will obviously pair with the TLD and only work with the points when the TLD is taken. Without smaller upgrades, the TLD isn't worth 35 points because it that effectively makes it a 50 point weapon.

I'm glad we are going to drop it back to 25 and try it. I really don't feel that with the adjustments in the latest AMTL version the TLD is going to be overwhelmingly taken. If previous version are any indication, we will see a few in each list mostly on the larger titans as well as a variety of other weapons.

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Arm mounted TLD = Laser Blaster. Same for carapace mounted. AFAIK there is no metal Laser Blaster only the plastic version from the beetleback.

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To my mind this issue stems from the increased range. I don't know how universal the change is or whether it's only been implemented in this list but I reckon having a single configuration of warlord (admitedly the one on sale right now) with a slightly more complimentary weapons setup (3 weaps range 60) isn't worth all this other hassle.

I didn't see any of the arguments for the increase to the range so more than willing to accept that there was a pretty good reason for it but to my mind we'd be going from a balanced weapon at range 60 for 35 pts to an equally balanced weapon at range 45 for 25 pts.

Is it worth opening this debate again or is the 60cm firmly set in stone?

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Well even in Wh40k the TLD has a 30% longer range than the VMB (96" vs 60"). If you consider that all Titan weapons are artificially shorter ranged in Epic than in Wh40k (excepiton: the Inferno Gun) then 60cm vs 45cm is fine.

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The 60cm is an official jervis-approved change and is in the online rulebook, so it's in the various guard and marine lists too.

It's not the perogative of the AMTL list designer to change all the other lists that also use titans.

Except that literally doesn't work. The laser blaster is a triple turbolaser, in the modern styling it has three barrels. what ships with the reaver most certainly DOES NOT have three barrels and looks very much like the modern TLD. Finally it's labeled as a TLD in the official rules so we REALLY shouldn't call it something it is not as this adds confusion to new players. (but in my marine list, it's got TLD, why can't my titan legions have that?)

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Not literally. "count as" rule.

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Cheers for the info Zombo, never wanted to suggest something which would have impacts outside just this list.

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but a Non-destructor version of the turbolaser, as a scout weapon, could be 45"... no warhounds with TLDs exist in official lists. meanwhile, for reavers and warlords, TLDs are 'officially' balanced at 25pts, because if they where that price, the cost of the standard configuration titans would match up with the same titans built in the AMTL list. that seems like a pretty big stamp of approval to me (especially since if anything, AMTL titans should be cheaper than their counterparts, due to the God Machines rule)

if the AMTL list designer seriously has an issue with warhounds with TLDs, use my above suggestion, and reduce their range for warhounds.

has anyone actually talked to Jervis about this issue?

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Actually, you have it backwards. They're fine for use with Warhounds, it's Reavers and Warlords that take nothing but 25pt TLDs that are the problem.


I don't, so I won't, if that's okay. :-)


Not recently.

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