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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: Political Post  Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:57 am |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
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Location: Finland
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| Quote (Serps @ 04 2003 Dec.,00:33) | | I don't care if the war was for oil. I don't care if we never find WMD. Removing Saddam is one of the most noble things I have seen this country do in a long time. |
I'm happy he's gone. I'm not so sure about the way he went though; it just smacks of vigilante justice to me. |
What I have a problem with is that:
1) In the past US of A has always been the first one to criticize similar moves made by _others_. And now everybody is supposed to just accept this one with a shrug. And if you _don't_ accept it you are a terrorist and a Saddam supporter. Kind of like during the Cold war when you were a commie whenever you disagreed with anything US of A did.
2) Why just this regime? There are a myriad dictators and terror regimes around the world, and the sad fact is that US of A has been supporting as many of them as the USSR did when it existed. Saddam included. Before Kuwait invasion nobody, and I do mean _nobody_ gave a damn about _what _ mr. Saddam did as long as he stayed within his appointed sphere of interest.
3) Is there now going to be a happy spree of spreading democracy to every corner of the world? Who's next? And what is the justification that time? Where will it stop?
4) The trend in US foreign politics has been steadily, over the years, moving closer and closer to "Might makes right" or "Do what we say and nobody gets hurt". _That_ coupled with an attitude of "There are two ways of doing things. First, there is our way; and then there is the wrong way" in certain circles is what makes me _very_ worried. Now we have the first case of "we do what we want" in our hands. I wonder what the next one will be?
For any human system to work there must be an equivalent counterweight for every weight in the system or it will become unbalanced. At present there simply is no counterweight for USA. And the situation would be equally worrying no matter _what_ country occupied the top place, be it Germany, France, UK, Japan, or whatever. Because _human beings_ are selfish. And selfishness tends to give birth to things like jealousy, envy, greed and so on.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. 
_________________
I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.
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Jimbo
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Post subject: Political Post Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:19 am |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm
Posts: 3495
Location: Wessex
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| Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 04 2003 Dec.,06:57) | | Before Kuwait invasion nobody, and I do mean _nobody_ gave a damn about _what _ mr. Saddam did as long as he stayed within his appointed sphere of interest. |
Reminds me of something.
When the first Gulf War started the British Army did not have any desert uniforms (or certainly not enough). The MoD had made the decision (back in the late 1980s) that it was more than likely that Britain would never fight another desert battle and decided to sell the spare desert uniforms....
...they sold them to...
...guess who...
Iraq!
So in 1991, not only did the British Army have to go out and buy new desert uniforms, but they also had to design new ones in case certain forces in the Coalition got confused!
When Iraq fought Iran, both the US and British governments actively supported Saddam.
When Afghanistan was "invaded" by the USSR, the US and British governments supported and supplied arms to what became the Taliban.
Why just this regime? There are a myriad dictators and terror regimes around the world |
I'm with Mojarn on this one, why doesn't the USA liberate North Korea? China? Burma? Scotland?
Ooops I wasn't going to get involved in this debate!
I am always confused when someone who plays wargames says they are a pacifist. |
it's really simple, of all wars were fought on the tabletop then the world would be a nicer place
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Political Post Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:33 pm |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
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| Quote (netepic @ 04 2003 Dec.,14:53) | I think political posts are the heart of most forums and it is hard to maintain a forum without using excessive moderation that does refrain from them.
The only way to truly stop them is to have a list of rules set in stone, and these rules to be rigourously adhered to using black and white moderators who accept no shades of grey. |
That sounds like far too much work. Unnecessary, too. 
Generally, I dont object to political threads, but they do bring out the strong opinions. I also strongly believe that there are two phases of any thread like this - the exchange of views and then the hammering on about covered ground.
I like the exchange of views, but if threads can come to a halt before people start recovering old ground and pressing their points, we can all go on without a bitter taste. 
I dont want this place to be heavily moderated, and I honestly have never felt that I HAD to log in each day to check that everyone was behaving (I do log in every day, but because I like it here too!).
Moderators need the 'shades of grey'. When I appointed moderators they were chosen chiefly because I recognised that the reputation of these boards would rest with their opinions and decisions occassionally.
As I said, I am not going to shut down this thread, because I dont want to censor. I just dont want people to get drawn into a discussion or feel that the thread only ends when an opinion has been changed somewhere._________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Political Post Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:26 am |
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
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After years and years (about 20) of historical gaming, that was one of the appeals of Epic ... No Nazis, Fascists, Communists, etc., etc. ... it is a null set. I was more concerned about the operational tactics of the units in the game, rather then their historical real world geo-political backgrounds. As I said, my father was wounded by the Germans in WWII and I did my soldiering ('79-'90) in the Cold War. But with biases out of the equation, you could get to the real art and science of warfare. Of course you can't ever dismiss history entirely, I like military history and mention historical analogies frequently. Nor can you forget that much of the world is at war again, but the IG and SMs going at it with the Orks is free of geo-political allusions ... and enjoyable.
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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