I rarely ever take them as they are a bit too expensive to justify. I would like to see their stats remain unchanged but their points drop to 225 or 250 (happy with either) and them being brought back as an upgrade for FW's at 3 for 150 points.

This would also help the Orca's usefulness as one of the major barriers to an orca list is that it severely limits ML's. The only other ML option is a pathfinder upgrade which is much too expensive if you have to leave the devilfish at home.

What do other people think?

For me, the biggest deterrent is the 2+ Initiative. For a formation that deploys by Teleport, under best circumstances (you're within range of a decent target, you win Initiative), there's a 66% chance you'll receive at least one BM for the Teleport, meaning you've got a 33% chance of failure (3+) to activate.

Even though the formation isn't really assault based (where failure is inaction), and even if it can fire without moving (a 15cm move means relying on winning Initiative), a failed activation cuts their firepower options significantly. When paying almost twice as much as a Recon Formation, their effectiveness should be much more than just putting ML's on something.

Then there's the issue after being broken. You've got a formation with a 15cm range. So for it to play any role, it needs to be within 45cm of the enemy. But if it's within 30cm, it has a 5+ rally. That's so not great.

I've played with StealthSuits at 1+ Init/300pts, and have found them workable. I've played them at 2+ Init/275, and found them worthless. If your preference is to retain them at 2+ Init, 225 would be a more appropriate cost, only because you've raised the Recon formation's cost.

Morgan Vening

The formation probably does need a points drop, although I would point out you dont have to teleport them - if they were 225pts - two formations for 450pts becomes a pretty good air assault with 12 FF5+ first strike and their 5+ RA. Or just air drop in to shoot for 12 AP3+ Disrupt.

I reckon either a small points drop, or a return to Init 1+. Not fussed which one.

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What do people think about their reintroduction as an upgrade? That is the primary reason I started this topic. This restriction is the biggest barrier against the use of orcas IMHO.

Currently I want to try out an orca list something like:

FW+Broadside
FW+Broadside
Crisis+SC
Broadsides
Recon (tetra's)
Pathfinders or Recon (tetra's)
Pathfinders
Skysweep
TS Ax-1-0
Barra
Orca
Orca

However I only have 4 ML formations which seems a bit light. I don't consider attaching pathfinders a viable option as without the devilfish they are too expensive (which I realize was a conscious choice but seriously the full formation is only 50 points more). I would like to see stealth suits come back as an upgrade 3 for 150 points for FW's to encourage this type of list.

My preference is for 1+ Init.
They are battle suits and need the 1+ to effectively carry out their mission.

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I'd prefer 1+ init. also.

I dont really like the idea of Stealth as an upgrade, It just seems a slightly odd mix, the Stealth should be ranging ahead doing special forces type work.

More importantly than my hesitancy based on what is admittedly a personal interpretation of the background, is that its a bit too obvious an upgrade and detracts from the idea of formations working together, Its perfectly possible to mount Fire Warriors in an Orca and then get a ground formation into possition to mark a target for them. Which to me feels like the ideal behind the list.

With Stealth as an upgrade its just a bit easy - you get the markerlights , some more shooting as well as good armour as an ablative shield at the front and even a bit more engageing power and never have to worry about any support from ground formations.

Personally I use at least one Orca all the time and they work great, admittedly as much as I have wanted to squeeze a second Orca into lists I have found it very difficult and ended up with another markerlight formation. But I dont think the ideal behind the list, or the Orca is as an airborn attack list (or worse a few options make it pretty close to an air assault list).