Well I don't know about everyone else, but I do like option in a game. Thats why I like 40k more then other games( warmachine ).

But I also think that one nid list would be fine, I just want something fixed with this one first. Yes I might be a minority in the thinking that raveners are to powerful. But I play alot of 40k as well and I know that they are no where near that good. Now I do know that this is a totally different game, but it is the same world and same background, so they should be somewhat similar, right?

I do agree that adding in alot of different stuff will bog down the army lilst a bit. But wouldn't the nids use everything at there disposal or even create new things to deal with certain things too? The nids are an ever changing race that conformes to what is needed on a battle field. Just a cople of opinons on the matter.

I'm back... but I'll be disappearing for a week, then be back for a good long time... lots of reading to catch up on!

Hey K, it's good to see ya.

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Thanks!

Good to be back... and nice to see the Broodlings have been busy! *laugh*

Can't stop them from evolving.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

As a player who's rather new to epic, why should the slug list be the core list?

I always thought a core list should be a list that a new player should pick up.

When playing marines, you pick the general list first and it has the most important stuff you know from 40k, when playing IG, you pick Steel Legion and there's most of the stuff you know.B
ut when you want to play nids, you need the old slugs that you know nothing about.

I don't mean to be rude, but for me, this is the variant list for old players, not the core list new players should use.

Fair point. The problem is that the 40k dog no longer wags the Epic tail. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's all volunteer work that gets these lists done and balanced (not that said volunteerism didn't play a major role even when epic was supported). Though you may be right about the ideal strategy for Epic, there just aren't the resources to spin up a new and balanced list with each new 40k Codex.

I'm not talking about the most recent codex,fexes have been able to fill most support roles (big cc monster, heavy fire support, "firefight" support) in the last three iterations of the codex. I'm not talking about tervigons or anything of the newest dex. I'm talking about the fact that slugs have been replaced by the humble fex since third edition of 40k and that was more than 10 years ago.

Ok. Fair point; it's just that here you're running into a even bigger challenge -- lack of castings for anything other than one flavor of 'fexes. There are certainly potential proxies out there, and it'd be interesting to see a list that made suggestions about such proxies, but the lack of available miniatures is probably an even more significant cause of inertia.

Really the choice is between designing the list either to suit the epic nid models that are available - even if just on ebay, or designing it to better follow the more recent 40k nids.

Really neither choice makes the nids a good choice for an epic newcomer - either you don't have the units you recognise fron 40k or you don't have the models available.

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Heh, I guess I haven't made myself clear what I'm up to

Yes, your points are all valid. Thus, as a new player, I'm abslutely in favour of a generic tyranid core list. Because it's difficult to get all you want from ebay, I'm using some slugs (only the artillery ones, though I hate their look, somehow I got a lot of them), the big DRM beasts, some hybrids (slug arms on insect alien bodies) and other stuff.
So I'm already using this list in a generic way and I don't see any reason why this list, the so called core list, should not be a generic list.

My suggestion is as follows

- Rename the units in this list to generic types, so new players can use whatever models they have (would require some little changes like merging the screamer killer fex with that cc slug, also the speed of some former slugs could be rethought for the new generic organisms)
- Make a slug list for all the old players by dropping the vituperator and the new hierodule
- Make a "new codex" list for people who are using E&Cs stuff or who like to scratch build the new stuff in 6mm (ok, such a list already exists)

These seem like good suggestions. btw, take a look at Khurasan's space demons as well as Pendraken's aliens. both seem ripe for proxying.

Aye, excellent suggestion. So good, I already suggested it earlier in the thread and used it as the basis for Splinter Fleet Churoninx Tyranid list.

It solves both problems- older players/models and new players/models(other companies, etc).

Yes, Tyranids are constantly evolving, have endless variants of bio-constructs, etc, etc, etc but at Epic level they boil down to a few 'generic types'.
A heavily armoured beast that's good at stabbing can have Stat Line A, regardless of if it has legs or a slug body, claws or talons.

I'd argue Epic was the dog that wagged the 40k tail. No coincidence many 40k units started in Epic (generally because they where too big for 40k scale until GW convinced people to pay for big toys).

I really don't like the idea of Epic players and volunteer designers jumping through hoops to keep up with the 40k schedule- mainly because the new units at this stage are shoehorned in for the sake of flogging a new 40k model.
At Epic level I don't care if it's a Carnifex sized slug, or a slug-sized Carnifex. I especially don't care if the Carnifex has Gun Variant X or Slightly Different Gun Variant Y, or that it has a spiky tail or not, etc.

There is no new model for Epic, so the one good thing to chasing a 40k Marketing Schedule isn't there- leaving us only with the Codex Creep and the 'All-Change Mad Hatter's' of the schedule.

You mention Space Marines as a good Core List for new players? Where's the Techmarine's artillery gun? Where's the Land Speeder Storm? Land Raider Redeemer? Sternguard? Etc.
The Space Marine list works perfectly well without these unnecessary add-ons. At a pinch the player can 'counts as' quite easily- using a Techmarine with Artillery as a Devastator unit with Librarian for example.

Tyranids can do the same if you make the Profiles abstract/generic, or at least have bracketed alternate model suggestions.

I just think we need two lists. One with the old stuff in it and one with the new stuff in it. That would provide the maximum ammount of accessability for everyone.

Stops either list becoming too bloated (9.2.1 is bloated as it is IMO) and retains the character nessesary so that an Exocrine is an Exocrine, not just a miscilanious gunbeast.

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Seconded!

Also note that the slugs dissapiered the moment FW introduced their Hierodules.
The Scythed Hierodule is the replacement for the Haruspex.
The Barbed Hierodule is the replacement for the Malefactor and possibly the Exocrine.
The Trygon is the more up-to-date looking replacement for the old Trygon.

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