As for unit stats, I believe the easiest way to develop would be to split fleets into old-school and modern fleets.The 9.2.1 for instance lacks modern carnifex variants, clinging to the screamer-killer and so on. Why not use fleets in the same manner as IG patterns? That would allow different stats and weaponry, and make it easier for the modern fleet army list designers to make their lists work. I believe the most important balance is the internal balance, not external uniformity. Krieg guardsmen differ from Steel Legion guardsmen, and so do Elysian Drop Troopers. The current BA Rhinos are faster than the standard Rhino. Why would not different hive fleets differ in stats like movement and armour, especially when Hive Fleets are characterized by their ability to adapt and change their brood creatures? Could different fleets use different spawning or synapse rules? Why not?

I see no point in letting the differences between the past and present representations of Tyranid Hive Fleets lead into a stalemate where no lists are finished. Did one fleet give up on assault spawns and further modify fexes? Fine, increase carnifex movement to let it occupy the same niche. Did another fleet develop a plethora of winged creatures? Did a third fleet improve on Trygons, including the Mawloc and the synapse variant? Fine, change the stats to mirror the "improvement". The more I think of it, the less likely a Tyranid universal list and stats seem. These creatures change. The next fleet will always include something new that has not been encountered before.

/Fredmans

The leviathan list was frozen about a year ago because Chroma intended to update this list. That update hasn't happened, and I think continuing to freeze the leviathan list in such a circumstance is unneccessary. I may ask E&C if I can take it over if he's not interested in continuing with it.

The Frogbear agrees wholeheartedly

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Frogbear approves

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Essentially then you're in favour of Tyranid list(s) breaking from the format of most other race strategies with a "master" list and variants using the core stats and rules with extras. For the tyranids there won't be a "master" list with core stats and rules as every variant will have their own rules and unit stats.

Thats what I'm currently sitting on (and why Leviathan was frozen), the core stats are different and the key rules like synapse (I've got variable initiative) and spawning (heavily restricted and similar to Jeridians Churoninx). I'll post the list up hopefully sometime over the weekend so you can see what you've unleashed.

Ok, Zombo, you can have Leviathan, and do with it as you wish.

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I think you might find that Chroma has been a little busy of late. Patience is a virtue. From what I remember Chroma mentioned that he was waiting to see the new Nid codex and what changes were in it before updating the 9.2.1 list as updating before the new codex only to have to change again was counter-productive.

I'm not sure which way I'll go with Leviathan, but I'll likely keep the unit stats the same as the core list, for the shared units.

Special rules may be another matter.

I understand that Chroma has RealLife(tm) priorities at the moment, and that's of course completely fine. I just don't think all nid work has to stop because the AC isn't around for a while.

In fact, it seems the perfect time to try out some different ideas.

9.2.1 caters for established minis however. It does not really need the codex as a guide.

The new codex is more useful to a list that wants to represent the newer units without established models.

IMO 9.2.1 just needs some small work done to it (been too long so unsure what at this time - other projects to do), to have it as a list the majority are happy with. I do not think it should cater to the most recent and ever changing GW releases that are made merely to sell bigger and more expensive miniatures.

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I absolutely agree; representing the recent codices should be a role for varient lists. The majority will be perfectly happy with 9.3 or whatever it'll be called once a few changes are made, but some of us will never be happy unless we have a list that represents the modern interpretation of the nids. That's what Leviathan is for.

The other benefit to running Leviathan and 9.2.1 separate is that both would not doubt have their own interpretation on representing the nid force. These difference in rules will create discussion and debate. If this then leads to adopted rules across both lists that players can agree on, then the whole development would have been well worth it. We would then have 2 strong lists to cater for fans out there.

It is not so much a split as it is a freedom of design. One list trying to cater for 3 different versions of the nids would only make it weak at best as a fan list.

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Of course there is another way to take the list, which is into the dark realms of hive fleet Khurasan, i.e. catering to the gribbly castings that are actually currently available. This would probably entail focused thinking on how to match unit types with available proxies.

Why are ravagers so powerful? I let a friend use my nids and he brought nothing but ravagers and warriors and titans. I think they honestly need to be infantry or change the blast marker rule. If you change it to recieve 1 BM per 2 units(brood) that dies at least they will be getting BM's. It just seems like there really is no reason to take anything but ravagers. I have a problem with that. Can someone explain the negative aspect with ravagers if there are any?

- They are Light Vehicles (susceptible to both AP and AT shots)
- They have no shooting
- They can be clipped in an assault quite easily
- They are expensive
- They have crappy armour
- They cannot gain a cover save (being LV)

That's 6 reasons.

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