Military Organisation |
|
CyberShadow
|
Post subject: Military Organisation  Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:49 pm |
|
| Swarm Tyrant |
 |
 |
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
|
|
I am not quite sure where to put this, so this seems to be a good place.
I am trying to get a grip on exactly what units ar involved in a miltary structure. For example, a regiment is made up of how many whats? (If you see what I mean.)
What is the definition of a brigade?
I know for a fact that there are many here with a great idea, so can someone post a quick summary for me?
Thanks in advance.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
MaksimSmelchak
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:59 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
 |
 |
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
|
|
CS,
Each country has their own model and some of the terms have different meanings such as in American or British military organization.
In the USA, it works something like this (bear in mind that I was an Air Force man rather than a ground pounder...)...
Army
Brigade
Division
Regiment
Battalion
Company
Platoon
The larger units contain a variable number of smaller ones with some groups having set numbers.
Different countries have different standards.
I'm pretty sure that a US tank platoon has 2 or 4 MBTs, but a Middle Eastern one generally has 3.
The term regiment and squadron have different meanings in British and American usage.
It's pretty complicated.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
MaksimSmelchak
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 9:01 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
|
|
CS,
What is the definition of a brigade? |
A brigade is generally 3 to 5 regiments in US parlance.
I forgot what it is in British parlance.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
|
| Top |
|
|
|
MaksimSmelchak
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 9:30 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
|
|
CS,
Army
(The whole schabang divided by theatres)
Brigade
(Usually 3-5 Regiments)
Division
(Usually 2-3 Regiments)
Regiment
(Usually 3-6 Battalions and support elements)
Battalion
(Usually 3-8 companies)
Company
(Usually 4-6 platoons)
Platoon
(Somewhere between 5 to 12 men or 2 to 4 vehicles)
Of course, organization of aircraft can be very different.
The guidelines I typed are based on US organizational practice.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:54 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
Maksim came close... but... ?
I wrote something like this on the Blood Angels thread.
O.K, a Squad is two 5 man Fire Teams with 1 Squad Leader so 11 men, generally.
3-4 Squads make a Platoon, so around 44 men.
A Regiment is 1100-3200 men and a Brigade is 2000-4000.
So based on era and army, a Division is usually a 3-4 Regiments or Brigades. ?
A Brigade IS smaller than a Division (9000-20,000 men).
In WWII, some UK Brigades were 1 Inf. Regiment plus 1 Tank Battalion, for example. ?
Now remember with each level of organization you have organic support units, that goes towards the Division total.
AFV units are 4-5 vehicles per platoon for NATO and 3-4 AFVs for armies that follow the former USSR organizations, generally.
2-4 Divisions, plus attached units make a Corps.
2-4 Corps make an Army. ?
And 2-4 Armies make an Army Group. ?
So some of Maksim's organizations were correct.
But being a former Infantry Officer, I worked with this all the time. As I said before please feel free to ask me about this kind of thing, I'm more than glad to help! 
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
primarch
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:46 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
|
|
Hi!
Legion4 beat me to it, but he's right a brigade is a lesser category than a division, which is the bigger.
Legion4 how many divisions in a "corps", how many corps in an army?
Primarch
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:53 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
2-4 usually in both cases ... (it's in there). And remember Corps and Armies have all kinds of separate Battalions, Regiments/Brigades attached to them to include Engineers, FA, MPs, Cav., Transportation, etc., etc., they are HUGE organizations ! 
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Mojarn Piett
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:35 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
Posts: 5455
Location: Finland
|
Finnish army organisation is about the same, with the exception that there are no divisions. Brigade is the largest, hm, independent unit. (?)
There are some other quirks as well. A Finnish brigade is quite artillery heavy compared to a Finnish division from last war since it has about the same amount of artillery.
A Finnish armored brigade is so infantry heavy it is IIRC roughly comparable to U.S. mechanized brigade in armor to infantry ratio.
Then there are the new so-called rapid deployment brigades which are an oddity organisationally. I don't know much about them.
Edit: A Finnish brigade seems to be somewhat large at 5300 - 5700 men (depending on the type). Curiously, armored brigade is larger than infantry brigade. 
_________________
I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
CyberShadow
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:50 pm |
|
| Swarm Tyrant |
|
|
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
|
|
Argh! Can open... worms everywhere...
This is confusing, but thanks for all of the tips guys. The point of my question was 'what modern term would best describe an Epic formation'? I guess that this would be platoon. I have never been comfortable with the fluff behind the Epic formations, and wanted a different take on it all.
Thanks.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:57 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
|
Well as I said, those number will vary based on the army and the time frame we are talking about. I showed some good examples in the Blood Angels thread. And to add more detail, a Rgt. and Bde. are almost interchangeable in modern armies, usually 3 per Div. as I said. However, for example, the US has a number of independant Armored Cav Rgts. (ACR), that are attached to the Corps and the Corps Cdr, can use them as he sees fit. There are a number in Iraq right now, IIRC the 2nd and 3rd. These ACRs are a lot like the old Regimental Combat Teams of the Korea ('50-'53) and even Vietnam ('59-'73) era. The ACRs have Armored and Infantry Scout units, Helicopters, Engineers and FA, all organic or attached to the Rgt.
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:14 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
Yes, when I try to explain TO&Es to my friend who is a history teacher, he gets confused too. As I said we use the SM1 templates and they are organized into detachments (= Platoons), Companies, Bns and then Rgt. ?4-9 stands (a Stand is = a 5 man Fire Team) would = a platoon. 3 platoons = a Company. For AFVs, 3-5 models would = a platoon. ?So 3 Companies = a Bn, and 3 Bns = a Rgt. ?And at Bn and Rgt levels you have attached support units, like mortars, Rapiers, even tanks, etc. ?Now this is the way it's done in SM1 and generally reflects reality. ?Hope that was some help ... ? ? ? Only the Gods know what G/W was doing with E40K and E:A, but I think (?) they were trying to reflect the dreaded 40K rules ! ?
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
primarch
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:31 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
|
|
Hi!
CS, an epic detachment would be a platoon and a group of platons would be a company.
While epic sells it self as "big battles" and such, unless you play a real big game, its mostly represents battles with 1 or 2 regiments per side. You need real "mega-games" to hope to get to divisional level games.
Imagine playing epic on an "army" level....
Primarch
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
netepic
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 9:26 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 7016
Location: Southfields, London, England
|
|
What might help here, is if someone were to do an Example using Imperial Guard terminoligy basing it on a nations army.
EG:
Squad - 11 IG, split into 2 fire teams
Platoon - 44 IG, split into 4 Squads
Etc, including tanks and APCs....
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 5:19 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
Well I see it more as 1 or 2 Bns per side although with SM2 you may have reached Rgt vs Rgt ! ?O.K., as I said 4-9 stands = a platoon. ?3-4 Platoons = a Company. ?3-4 Companies = a Bn. ?See the pattern ? ?With Armor or Artillery it's 3-5 vehicles = a Platoon and so on. ?And as I said a stand of 5 troops is a Fire Team, 2 Fire Teams = a Squad, and 2 or 3-4 Squads = a platoon. ?? ? ? The Ork Blitz Brigade is more like a Mech Company. ?So much of the G/W fluff is just "fluff" !
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Mojarn Piett
|
Post subject: Military Organisation Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:20 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
Posts: 5455
Location: Finland
|
| Quote (primarch @ 28 2003 Nov.,17:31) | Hi!
CS, an epic detachment would be a platoon and a group of platons would be a company. |
This is true in Net Epic. However, in Epic 40000 and Epic A the detachment size is IMO roughly comparable to a company.
While epic sells it self as "big battles" and such, unless you play a real big game, its mostly represents battles with 1 or 2 regiments per side. You need real "mega-games" to hope to get to divisional level games.
Imagine playing epic on an "army" level....
Primarch |
Aside from using "primarchloads" of minis that's why I started to develop the Hammer Head, eg. Modern Spearhead conversion to the uninitiated.
_________________
I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.
|
| Top |
|
|
