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World Eaters Development - Updated 14th June 2010

 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Ares wrote:
Overall I like the list. I certainly has made me enthusiastic enough to buy some Chaos Hordes and to start converting daemon engines from scratch and the like.


This alone makes all the spent time well worth it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:43 pm 
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Teleport is unlisted in the upgrades?

EDIT: Actually teleport is listed as an upgrade available for terminators, but it is listed as an ability in the unit listing. Is it free?


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Teleport is standard for the Terminators in V3.3.

There should be no Teleport upgrade anymore.

I see that it has been left in there under Terminators. This is an error and I will have it removed. Sorry about that.

I will update this thread when I have updated this and any other potential errors.

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:24 am 
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Just looking at the space craft Frogbear, I'm not sure tweaking a Battle Barge isn't a bit "gamey" for the points drop given Barges have been pre-designed. BBs should cost 350 as usual I'd think. I can see why for the extra drop space etc which is a good option but maybe change the ship to a Hulk or something like that? Also the only BB for WEs was Angron's wasn't it? So not sure if that still floats, so to speak. I do like an 80 space drop ship though - nice and "roomy" :D


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:18 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
Just looking at the space craft Frogbear, I'm not sure tweaking a Battle Barge isn't a bit "gamey" for the points drop given Barges have been pre-designed.


Seeing it can only ever be used on Turn 3 and above, I fail to see how it is 'gamey'.

I removed 2x Pin Point attacks and gave it the extra capacity. That combined with the fact that an opponent can set up ready with Overwatch, or even 'bump' the ship out of a turn 3 showing, is more than enough to justify the cost and existance. Happy for people to show the playtest data to prove me wrong.

Quote:
Also the only BB for WEs was Angron's wasn't it?


Perhaps. It is still no reason why it's inclusion is an issue. You see such 'large ships' in other lists based purely on fluff.

Battle Barge or Space Hulk. There really is not much of a difference. There is no reason why World Eaters would not have Battle Barge or a Hulk that they have fashioned into a Battle Barge. It is a name rather than a class of ship IMO. The name so much is not important, and even if it was, as stated above, there is no reason it could never make a showing.

Hope this helps

Cheers...

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:25 am 
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I have updated the error with the Terminator upgrade and have reloaded the initial link.

From this point, this list will be available for 1 week for feedback and review. After that time, I will be looking to place a freeze on the development of this list for a period of 6 months. This is to start to develop some real playtest data, and consistency for it's future.

I am not all that comfortable that the list will remain as competitive as desired with the re-design. I want to get some playtest data to show how the army performs, and see whether there are any potential over-costings in the list. At the end of the day, I may be incorrect as everything on paper is telling me that the force is priced to it's abilities.

Overall, I am happy with the design, and would only want small tweaks here or there (if required) for the future to hopefully make it balanced. As it is an assault force, it needs that little extra 'Mc lovin' to really make it shine.

Cheers......

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:43 am 
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I've assembled most of my stuff, waiting for some ebay and Tacproductions to come ;-) will be up and playing in about a month i think.


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:24 am 
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frogbear wrote:
Dobbsy wrote:
Just looking at the space craft Frogbear, I'm not sure tweaking a Battle Barge isn't a bit "gamey" for the points drop given Barges have been pre-designed.


Seeing it can only ever be used on Turn 3 and above, I fail to see how it is 'gamey'.

I mean "gamey" in that you reduced the big weapon and added a TK weapon and added more troop cap to allow a cheaper ship. The "cost of space craft" thread had some interesting feedback regarding the changing of Spacecraft is all and as Zombo mentioned the weapons mean little. A large space drop in an assault list more than makes up for it right? Otherwise, how would it look if others did the same with a Space Marine army and called it a Battle Barge...?

Just some feedback on the look of it anyway. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:34 am 
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Here's a first army list I was thinking to build/test, can I get some opinions/ideas please?

Core 1245
500 Beserker retinue Skull Lord, 4 Legionairres, 4 Beserkers, 2 Rhinos, 2 Slaughterfiend, Blood Lord

325 Beserker Retinue Skull Lord, 4 Legionairres, 4 Beserkers, 4 Rhinos

300 Bike Retinue 6 Bikers, Daemon Pact, Keeper of Chains

120 Daemon Pool 6 FleshHounds

Support 775
275 Defiler Engines

250 Assault Engines

250 Support Engines

War Engines/Air Support 975

350 Greater Brass Scorpions 2

225 Hellblades

400 Lord of Battle

//2995//

So only 9 activations, 8 on the table, bts is supreme commander... not sure if this is great so far?
Also I cannot think of a reason to use bloodletters in an assaulting list, at least if you are assaulting with a rhino rush / bike attack, the infiltrator of flesh hounds will allow them to keep up on the assault. I suppose bloodletters can be used to prop up a formation that you expect to be assaulted, but really won't they just slow things down without infiltrate?


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:40 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
I mean "gamey" in that you reduced the big weapon and added a TK weapon


No. I did not add a TK weapon. It was always there. Please review the BL list for the details on their Despoiler Class for the comparison and what I changed on it. I really do not know where you are getting your data from.

Dobbsy wrote:
how would it look if others did the same with a Space Marine army and called it a Battle Barge...?


If you had the same restrictions as the Battle Barge...? I really have not changed or differed from anything in the Chaos lists in any major way. Anything on a Space Marine front is a totally different issue and does not belong in this thread.

Pretty much, I am not entertaining any discussion on the Battle Barge until it is tested and shown to be an issue. The theory aspect in the thread you have mentioned is for a ship that is able to enter in any turn it likes on a SR 5. That is vastly different to what you have stated here. I would appreciate if that discussion was taken to the other thread as it does not belong here. The Battle Barge is balanced for what it is.

Thanks

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Last edited by frogbear on Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:55 am 
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fattdex wrote:
Here's a first army list I was thinking to build/test, can I get some opinions/ideas please?



Always happy to look at other people's list

Quote:
Core 1245
500 Beserker retinue Skull Lord, 4 Legionairres, 4 Beserkers, 2 Rhinos, 2 Slaughterfiend, Blood Lord


Be aware that if they start shooting Rhinos, your Legionaiires will be without transports. I normally would recommend making sure that if you lose troops and vehicles, they all have the ability to transport. At present, only the Berzerkers will be able to always hop on a transport. For the cost, you may wish to consider the Bloodpack and save yourself 100 points.

Quote:
325 Beserker Retinue Skull Lord, 4 Legionairres, 4 Beserkers, 4 Rhinos
300 Bike Retinue 6 Bikers, Daemon Pact, Keeper of Chains


Pretty standard

Quote:
120 Daemon Pool 6 FleshHounds


Remember you do not have to state what 'lesser daemon' you are taking till you place them on a table. Keep the Bloodletters handy.

Quote:
Support 775
275 Defiler Engines
250 Assault Engines
250 Support Engines


I think you will really appreciate these units. What Support Engine are you going to go with - Doom Blasters or Cannons of Khorne?

Quote:
350 Greater Brass Scorpions 2


I will be interested in how you find these. I am not happy with them at all myself.

Quote:
225 Hellblades


One of the best air formations in the game. Nice! Use them for air defence first if you can rather than a ground assault. They are alot better thyan most at the Interception when necessary

Quote:
400 Lord of Battle


I like your style. You may find this a little more fragile than you would otherwise like or expect. I would be interested in your thoughts on this as well.


Quote:
So only 9 activations, 8 on the table, bts is supreme commander... not sure if this is great so far?


You should give a go at tweaking it a bit. I recommend either the Possessed or Chosen for some cheaper activations. Keep them in cover where possible on the lead up however as you want these in CC, and not in the open getting shot up.

Quote:
Also I cannot think of a reason to use bloodletters in an assaulting list, at least if you are assaulting with a rhino rush / bike attack, the infiltrator of flesh hounds will allow them to keep up on the assault. I suppose bloodletters can be used to prop up a formation that you expect to be assaulted, but really won't they just slow things down without infiltrate?


Never underestimate that extra attack when needed. As stated above you do not have to state what 'lesser daemon' you are taking till you place them on a table. So have both types available and summon the ones most needed by the unit summoning them at the time. Bloodletters also assist with getting troops in buildings where bikes would otherwise not be able to go.

I hope this helps

Cheers....

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:18 am 
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frogbear wrote:


No. I did not add a TK weapon. It was always there. Please review the BL list for the details on their Despoiler Class for the comparison and what I changed on it. I really do not know where you are getting your data from.


ahh no problem I misunderstood then. Thought you'd down graded a BB not upgraded a despoiler.

Thanks for clearing that up.


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 10th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:56 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
ahh no problem I misunderstood then. Thought you'd down graded a BB not upgraded a despoiler.


I just realised you were referring to the Space Marine Battle Barge. Yeah, a totally different premise. :P

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 14th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:06 am 
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Ahaaa... I had misread the transport options of the slaughterfiend (chosen, thinking legionairres), thinking theyd be safe. I will have to have a juggle, as beserkers with pet defilers owns too much not to squeeze them in. Also a lot of the list is just going with what i currently have at hand ;-) Cool about the daemons, i think i will have 6 stands of dogs and 10 stands of letters handy. I need to collect more beserker models to have chosen (modeling 5x beserkers=chosen, beserker+4 chaos marines=beserkers, mix of chaos and imperial marines=legionairres) but will likely proxy for testing... and would like to be acquiring some blood slaughterers soon as they are available for requisition.

I will need to find 1 more assault and one more support engine as I forgot that it was units of four and I had ebay'd units of 3, but they should come up seems to be a lot going around. Planning on using 4 baby scorpions (guns) and 4 cannons of khorne (warp cannons), but might test out using mixes as well.

I don't expect the LoB to do a whole lot, but would make a nice backmarker deterrent.

I'll be able to try out navy heavy one day as well, have a heap of aeronautica chaos models on hand :D


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters Development - Updated 14th June 2010
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:54 am 
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I would definately play your first few games with proxies to make sure you are making what works for you - not much worth spending the time modelling something to realise you would never actually use it.

I have some casting ingredients if you ever get the inclination to mould some creations. I know you are quite creative fattdex and I am just around the corner from you. :)

As for modelling of the troops, that is always going to be a hard one. I am going to use my current Berserkers but change the shoulder pad colours (probably black vs white) or even use the older Chaos Marines.

For Possessed I will do some craftwork to get wings on berserkers (probably 3 per stand). May even swap out Bloodletter heads onb the Berserkers

For the Chosen, I am undecided. I may paint them almost black with tinges of red to make them stand out.

Take a look at a Chosen unit with 2 Slaughterfiends. They can garrison, have a 40cm charge, and give quite a punch. Just one of the options that people initially miss when looking at the list.

Regards...

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