I am afraid that those FF-suits would be extremely difficult to balance. An Orca with a load of those would make an extremely nasty Air Assault formation.

Good armour, EA+1 FF (maybe even MW FF), FF3+/4+ equals a very good unit for assaulting.

Creating a unit to fill an armies "deliberate built-in weakness" is likely to cause no end of problems.

Any change to bring FF 4+ to units like FW would need a whole change to the entire list. I think the Manta could be modified to FF 4+ with minimal impact but not FW's. -2 to engage orders would not be the answer to the change as you would simply set them up in terrain on o/w and beat almost anyone in a FF. FW's would become truly over powered.

The weak FF is a built in weakness of the list and I know its been said before ad norsium FF5+ isn't bad its just average. With their slightly above average Armour, excellent shooting and average FF FW's currently are one of the best infantry in the game. The only problems they normally have are against Marines and Necrons and many of these can be overcome with o/w and AA.

As for the Manta changes we play tested. I'm slightly concerned by some of them. A DC8, fearless, FF4+ unit with a ML is slightly too good. The Manta in effect almost single handedly won me the game. E&C was so worried about it that he spent 3 turns shooting at it and it MLed 2/3 of E&C's army for pretty much the game as it can hold its own in a FF. Tetra's were no longer and necessary.

So it was actually useful, then? :-)

A 2-1 victory is hardly crushing, and I reckon I could have stalled for a turn 4 (And possibly won the game in that turn) if I'd been properly awake.

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I didn't call it crushing. But your obsession with shooting at it meant that the more dangerous formations could do their jobs. I also did think it a bit weird that you didn't spread that infantry formation between your blitz and the other objective.

The mantas stats made it less effective in game terms that the equivalent cost of aircraft (Ax-1-0's and Barracudas pack more of a punch and are harder to deal with) but the effect it had on your mentality made it very useful. That combined with the ML meant that Manta had a very large impact on the game.

Haha, thanks guys. I didn't exactly expect an open welcome with the idea, but it was one that had blossomed in my head as I was preparing for bed and it just wouldn't let me sleep, so I had to write it down and let it out. I'm sure you all have had similar times.

Yes sorry E&C that wasn't my intent - I know full well you don't have the full control of the list. I meant it more like "it's unlikely to happen" not "E&C's to blame".

I don't have any more control of the list than you. I just have ideas and opinions and stuff.

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Just to note that Ryan and Zombo playtested Tau (With my proposed changes) vs Sisters last night, resulting in a 3-2 victory for the Tau on turn 4.

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OK so here's my current thoughts modified after a couple of test games:




Opinion : Hammerheads are greatly underperforming.
Recommendation for change : Reduce price of Hammerhead formation to 200pts, Hammerhead upgrade to 100pts. Increase Fusion Hammerhead's attack stat to 4+. Probably change Ion Cannon's AP stat from AP4+ to AP3+.

Opinion : The Manta is greatly underperforming.
Recommendation for change : Add the Fearless Special Ability. Drop to 550pts. Give it FF 4+. Add a markerlight.

Opinion : "Recon" formation has internal balance issues.
Recommendation for change : Split "Recon" into a Tetra formation (150pts) and a Piranha formation (175pts). Failing that, just increase the cost of the Recon formation to 175pts.

Opinion : Crisis Suits are under performing.
Recommendation for change : Add Invulnerable Save. Change CC rating to 5+. Change their MW shot to 4+.

Opinion : Orca slightly under performs.
Recommendation for change : Reduce points cost for Orca to 125pts.

Opinion : Broadside suits are slightly over-performing.
Recommendation for change : Increase points cost of formation to 325pts, increase upgrade cost to 150pts.

Opinion : Gun Drones are unattractive so nobody's taking them.
Recommendation for change : Decrease points cost for the formation to 125pts, and to 75pts for the upgrade.

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...And don't make their point cost raise very much...
isn't a 4+ reinforced armour better then a 6+ or 5+ invulnerable save?

Don't raise their points cost at all!


It would be, but I backed down from asking for a 4+ RA save on them, now I'm just suggesting adding a 6+ invulnerable save as a minor boost (That represents their use of Shield Drones).

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Agree with everything (even the hammerhead proposal very tentatively) but the Recon formation proposal and Broadsides (as per previous argument). I think with the Recon fm we should step down a notch before changing the entire formation into 2. A 50/50 split option (all tetra with up to 3 Piranha replacements if player wants) will control the over-gunned 5-1 split and still keep the formation at 150.

Ah, ok... ;-)

What about making two tetras compulsory when building a recon squad, leaving the exact proportion tertas/piranhas a free choice?

Just getting caught up, will comment later.

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- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Hi Honda it's great to have you back with us!

If you message Cybershadow he can help you get the password on your old account reset (We all had to do it to log in to the new forum).

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