Reads to me as if the Manta was just broken too. If it wasn't Fearless then you would have crew entering escape pods in panic, etc (= the Manta takes further damage due to the assault resolution roll)

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

As I stated earlier, it was only 1 Manta and it fought a battle first and killed 3 Landspeeders before withdrawing (not fleeing ASAP).

On another issue...
I had a thought this morning. Can Gun Drones and Shield Drones operate together in the same formation? If so, this is the obvious way to give Tau Drone formations Disposable. Shield Drones are by definition (in Epic Armageddon terms) Disposable. This is just a way to get Drones to be a usable unit.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

I *really* don't think they write the fluff with specific game mechanics in mind, *especially* not EPIC:A mechanics; to use the fluff as a definitive "rules source" is risky, as it tends to be written via the "Rule of Cool" vs the "Cool of Rules".

So Chroma - do you think a Manta should be Fearless?

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

Since it's supposed to be a "Titan class" war engine, I'm strongly in favour of it being fearless; second, I believe its current non-fearless is actually originally due to a type/accidental exclusion, so that's another point if favour of fearless; third, it *will* be your BTS, and a very obvious target: at 700 points and non-fearless, I can think of a lot better ways to spend those points.

If the points were greatly dropped, non-fearless might work, but that's more testing then.

How are people finding the use of the non-fearless Manta? Or are people not finding use for it at all?

We've tested it, at its current points level and level of armour protection it's just awful.


Yep, it was a typo that Honda liked and so kept.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

To begin with, players were intimidated by it and left it alone. In later games (after I suggested they go for it) it has been assaulted to death several times and I just wouldn't take one at it's present stats again.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

I don't know about the manta but noticed a strange thing about the orca...

a) it can embark pathfinders but not devilfishes
b) you can't play pathfinders without devilfishes

so... actually the orca can't embark pathfinders, am i right? is this a typo?

Well, it does give the provision for picking up some Pathfinders that have lost their Devilfishes in battle... but no, it's not going to be the most common option!

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Actually you are allowed to leave out units from a formation if you wish.

So you can embark pathfinders in an Orca, but only if you leave the devilfish unused.

Yes, its not great value (as you have already paid for the devilfish) but its technically possible.

Also perhaps its possible to embark pathfinders attached to a FW cadre (not sure on the numbers here), which might not have devilfish attached.

I believe it's permitted that during deployment, you can choose not to deploy units in a formation to qualify for certain criteria.

Ahh. It seems like it's only Marines that can do it. 6.3.1
"Choosing transport options is part of the army selection process. Portions of a formation may be left behind during deployment (to garrison, for example) the decision to exchange options, even “free” ones, must be determined when the army list is determined."

I thought it was a global rule. Anyways, earlier versions of the Pathfinders had it written as
"Pathfinder Support Group 4 Tau Pathfinder Teams. May have 2 Devilfish Troop Carriers for free."

Seems that that wording is no longer used.

Morgan Vening

Pathfinders can be placed inside an Orca if they are taken as an upgrade to Fire Warriors.
I think that's the only reasonable way to put Pathfinders in one.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.

Just a note to say that we tried a game with the Manta modified in the following way last night:

- Fearless
- Given a Markerlight
- FF4+
- 550 points

It seemed fine. Useful, for once, even.

I played Steel Legion against it, and the game ended 2-1 to Tau (Blitz, T&H, vs BTS*).

*Yup I killed the Manta in a Crossfire on turn 3, after it lost its shield on a Critical hit the first time I shot at it.



We also played Broadsides at 325pts per formation (still great), Hammerheads at 200pts per formation (Seemed okay) and Crisis Suits with 4+ RA and +1 to hit on their MW shot at 300pts (No judgement on their balance yet).

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

When you take them as an upgrade you get "2 pathfinders and 1 devilfish" and you can't embark...

As has been stated above (and generally played by most players around the world), you can choose to leave out units if you like (after paying the full cost of the unit).

A Pathfinder upgrade to the Fire Warrior Cadre with no Devilfish (8 stands of Fire Warriors) can be put into an Orca (just leave the Devilfish at home). It's a reasonable way to get Markerlights into the formation. All quite simple really.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.