If I understand the changes correctly, then I'm ok with the Multi Melta losing it's ranged attack.
As I understand it, would that mean that the MM gives the base FF attack the MW ability?
So in a FF, that would be 1xMW attack and 2x normal attacks?

I'd support this. I really want to see the MM used as I see it as the iconic weapon on this tank.

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Then keep it entirely. Why only keep half of it?

I know that there are other units with MM's that are stated differently. I understand the problems that exist with this concept.
Could it be named Crusader Multi Melta and then used as Hena has suggested?

Obviously, it is believed that the Crusader is too good for it's points with the MM having a ranged attack. If this change to the MM will allow the Crusader to keep the MM at it's ideal points cost then I'm happy for it be so and I'd like to see all the lists that use the Crusader follow this idea.

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I'd much rather keep the full MM rather than part of it, or lose it entirely. I've given up caring which, but I can't stand this half-way house.

The ranged attack of the MM was never a problem, the issues with the unit stem from its transport capacity and FF abilities. I don't think I've ever even seen the ranged attack used.

I have (more than once).

What if the Hurricane bolters were made into only 1 Extra Attack (instead of 2)?

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I still think Hena's Land Raider Crusader stats (Specifically the "Half a Multi-Melta" weapon) are an awkward kluge that's hurting other lists.

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I've never liked the idea of half a stat for a weapon, it's awkward and annoying, how a weapon works should be the same for every time it's used.

I've not been that active on the forums atm because of a number of reasons (mostly exams coming up) so I don't know what's been said but I still think that the LR Crusader is good enough without the MM.

I've been using it like that in the Templars for a least 20+ games, it's fine.

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How is this "too much" as it's the exact same procedure used with *any* good support unit/formation... it boggles my mind that one could consider a single MW6+ shot (on a double as described above) and then a single extra MWFF5+ attack as "too much".

Just assign an appropriate point cost for such an ability and go from there.

If you want the taste of an apple instead of a banana but only have the choice to get a banana or none fruit at all then you can't simply mush the banana into the shape of an apple and expect that it will taste like an apple.

In this regard Multi-meltas are just like bananas. Regardless if they are mushed into the shape of an apple (= are pintle-mounted) or not.

Same holds true for your supposed changes to the well established Missile Launcher.
Twin Missile Launchers on Devastatior units might be possible but then you have to invent a reason why Scions of Iron Devastator are so muich more able to concentrate their fire on a single target than any other Chapter's Devastators.

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+1

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Why not just make the MM an upgrade option so people can do as they like? If you want to spend extra points you can. If not you save your points and get no MM. Surely this option would be more agreeable to everyone if everyone wins? I know it's probably not everyone's cup of tea in terms of minutiae upgrades but hell, it's better than this ridiculous back and forth we have at the moment.

EDIT to clarify the idea - Basically if you want MMs for your LRCs you pay for the entire formation to have them not individual tanks

4 LRC = 300 points. Add MM to the formation +40-50 points etc

I do believe that's called "Adding a Librarian Character to a unit". :-)


As ever, if you want the LRC to cost the same ammount of points as a normal Land Raider, you're going to have to drop the Multi Melta.

If you want to keep the Multi Melta (Even though it's just an optional upgrade in Warhammer 40,000) you're going to have to charge more points for it.

I prefer the former, as it's more KISS.

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Couldn't we do both though? It just seems simple and a good compromise. Jacking up the points doesn't sit with some while it does with others. Why not let both parties have what they want?