EDIT:
Big change this version is that artillery pieces are gone and Support Weapons are back to being Tarantulas. Oh, and Scouts are now wildly different. That's about it, honestly.

Explanation for changes can be found in the update post (much) later in this thread.



1.0d -> 1.0e
Detachments:
Tacticals gain Fire Support option.
Devastators gain Fire Support option.
Terminators to 275 (Teleport to +75). Gain Hunter option.
Scouts lose Rhinos. Now have Land Speeder Storms by default. Cost to 250.
Predators lose Armoured Support.
Vindicators lose Armoured Support.
Fire Support is now Armoury. Three Space Marine Heavy Bolter Tarantula MkIs and two Space Marine Lascannon Tarantula MkIs (flimsy INF AT\P4+ and AT4+ respectively). Cost 175 (compare to Dreadnoughts if you feel that's too low). Options reduced to Dreadnought and Fire Support.
Dreadnoughts gain Fire Support.

Options:
Armoured Support has been heavily revised to allow up to three additional vehicles in a variety of configurations.
Fire Support now adds one or two Thunderfires at +75 each.
Support Weapons is now Tarantulas. Adds two HB and one LC for +100.

* * *

Changelist:
1.0c->1.0d
Tactical Squad cost to 275
Assault Marines lose Dreadnought option (what were they going to do with it?)
Devastator cost to 250
Scouts lose Razorback option
Heavy Support option is now Fire Support. Lost Hunter option, gained Support Weapons option.
Demi-Company costs revised
Fixed typo in Attack Bike unit entry, removed Scout from Land Speeder Storm, and revised the wording of the Support Weapons entry.
This'll be the last update for a while. I'm fairly confident in most of these changes, and the ones I'm not confident in other people are. That, and I think it's time the list breathed for a while.

Lies and calumny.

* * *

Changelist
1.0b->1.0c
Tarantula MkIs are now Support Weapons. Speed returns to 10cm.
Field Guns are now Artillery Pieces. Speed returns to 10cm.
Teleport option restored. Cost to 50.
Background added by the copious.

* * *

1.0->1.0b
Removed Fire Support option from Devastators
Heavy Support Option revised - two more Tarantulas, no Tarantula option
Terminators to 300 points
Fire Support option revised
Razorback option revised
Tarantula option revised
Tarantulas are now Tarantula MkIs
Mole Mortars and Thudd Guns have been combined into Field Guns (which are basically Thudd Guns)

* * *

Changelist (0.4->1.0):
-Tacticals gain the new Tarantula upgrade
-Assault detachments lose Mechanized and Razorback, gain Dreadnought.
-Devastators gain the Fire Support upgrade and the Tarantula upgrade.
-Terminators lose Teleport (no ships, and while they might be teleporting in from an off-battlefield location, it makes more sense to just eliminate the option)
-Bikes lose the Attack Bike upgrade and can be either 5 Bikes or 4 Bikes, 1 Attack Bike.
-Land Speeder Tempest formation eliminated (it may have been appropriate for the way they're used, but it mostly took up space)
-Predators gain Land Raider Terminus upgrade
-Fire Support formation changes name to Heavy Support, becomes 4 Tarantulas, and gains the option to take a Hunter. Cost to 150.
-Dreadnoughts gain the Tarantula upgrade. Formation now one pair of each type. Cost to 200.
-Vehicular Support becomes Armoured Support. Predator prices to 75.
-Damocles Command Rhinos may now be assigned to any formation, rather than just the Supreme Commander's. Prometheus price to 75.
-Demi-Company revised to be either a pair of Assault units or a pair of Devastator units with transport. Cost to 50 and 100, respectively.
-Fire Support. Additional units split into Tarantula upgrade. Costs adjusted in a variety of ways that will take too long to explain here.
-Land Raider text adjusted to limit quantity to maximum transport number.
-Tornado/Typhoon option now Land Speeders. Also allows Land Speeder Tempests for +25.
-Mechanized option eliminated.
-Razorback text adjusted to limit quantity to maximum transport number.
-Sniper adjusted to affect all units, costs 50.
-Tarantula option added. Splits old Fire Support option into two more manageable halves.
-Teleport option eliminated.
-Warlord restored. Single Warhounds will remain absent (barring a massive public outcry which did not appear at their removal. ).
-Thunderhawk costs decreased by 25
-Mole Mortars now have Disrupt, in order to maintain some consistency with the Squat versions

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Hi Simulated Knave,


I've read your list, and have a few thoughts and questions.

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Why no single Warhounds?

Why is a Tarantula an infanty unit with a movement speed, when in 40k it's an immobile light vehicle with the same armour class as a Sentinel?
I assume because you're writing a list that reflects what a Tarantula was 20 years ago?
If so, I recommend you rename your unit to "Tracked Tarantula" or similar to make the anachronism clear.

The Land Raider Terminus looks underpriced to my eyeball.

Tempest Launcher should be listed as an "AND", not an "OR".

Thunderhawk CAS stats, the Turbolaser has been given the to-hit stats of a Battlecannon.

Improved Comms: I thought this had been tested as extending the range of a Combined Engagement to 15cm (Rather than the normal 5cm)... not "Anywhere on the table" as you have it. "Anywhere on the table" would be very, very powerful.

I would recommend against dropping the points cost of Terminator formations by 25pts.

All the scouts getting "Sniper" for only 50pts is likely too cheap.

=====

Overall, the list seems okay, albeit not greatly focused (It seems a "generalist" style list representing a (mostly) Codex Chapter fighting a ground war, with a blending of units both modern (LS Storm) and old (Thudds, Mole Mortars, old style Tarantulas)).

I suspect that you'll find that in practice the ability to add a variety of 10cm move infantry artillery/fire support units to mainline formations will be a drawback, slowing down formations like Tacticals or Assaults that should be wanting to reach Engagements, not stand back and shoot.

Ultimately I think the approach is interesting, but (by eye) likely overpowered in the hands of an experienced player.

The inclusion of several units that haven't been available to Marines / part of the background in 15-20 years doesn't fill me with enthusiasm; Who are the "Apocrypha of Skaros" Chapter that they have such units available to them?

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Yar. I'm highly wary of entirely removing the range restriction for the order, rather than just extending it.


Agreed.

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The "Apocrypha of Skaros" aren't a Chapter; it's the "original printing" of the Codex Astartes itself, or some such: "the earliest known copy of the Codex Astartes. States that there were 23 Primogenitor Chapters (chapters founded from the Ultramarines Legion during the Second Founding)" - Codex: Ultramarines (for second edition), p. 13

Also, I like the Disrupt OR Ignores Cover choice for the Thunderfire Cannon. I think it offers interesting tactical choices.


Does that make sense as a justification, as the included units are not "Early history units" or "pre-heresy units", they are units that have (To my knowlege) been entirely removed from the background of the game setting...

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Yep, if all three of those formations don't end up withing 5cm of each other after the initial assault move, then *two* of them are completely removed from the board... don't think that's an over-powered ability. *laugh*

It's not a "justification", it's an explanation of what the term means; and it allows people to play with their older models... most people *aren't* going to use them, as it really slows the Marines down, but what's wrong with allowing them?

Nothing is wrong with writing a list that allows their usage... but I prefer that the stated reasons for including those units make sense in the context of the background.

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That's already demanded of the pre-existing rules. This special rule just removes the note that they also have to start their Engagement move in coherency.

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The "improved comms" rule just gets rid of the 5cm range of the commander rule, it doesn't get rid of the need for a formation to maintain coherency after a move; during a combined assault, all formations participating are considered "one formation", so all units in all formations involved, other than those with scouts, must end their charge move in an unbroken chain of 5cm links between units.

Any units/formations outside of that chain are removed from play, counting as destroyed... so, yeah, you don't want to just leave your "blitz guard" behind!